.308 decision - where to start

[KaiserNorton]

I've got the wants for a heavy barreled .308, mainly for distance shooting. I have a brother who's developed an interest in F-class shooting, and we've decided to set up a range on the family farm. We can shoot out to about 700yds there, so for now that is is my max distance.

In looking through the local funstores, there seems to be several models to look at. I'm kinda partial to Remington 700's so am focusing on them. Cheapest one found is a SPS tactical, with the hogue stocka and 20 inch heavy barrel. Then there were the SPS varmint,can't stand that stock, though), the VLS, and then the LTR, and finally a 5R stainless. The Stainless was the most expensive at $1050.

Price-wise, cheaper would be better for me, so I'm thinking hard on the SPS Tactical. Am concerned, though, how the short barrel will perform out to 600 yds. Was thinking that the money saved, though, could be used for an stock or scope upgrade.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Kaiser Norton

 

[morpheus]

If your main intention, as you stated, is to shoot long distance, then you are better off with a barrel longer than 20'. You will be losing a significant amount of velocity compared to a 26' barrel. Buy what you really need at the start otherwise you will just end up replacing it later and spending more in the long run.

 

[1000yardstare]

I have a Rem SPS Varmint in .308 as a backup F Class gun. My main F Classer is a custom 6AI. The problem I have found with the SPS .308 is the incredible amount of freebore that Remington puts in their chambers. This has been discussed several times in this forum. Must be some sort of lawyer thing so that it is difficult to reload to extremely high pressures. The effect of this freebore is that Sierra 155 Palmas are barely held in the case. I had to take the expander ball out of my RCBS Competition sizing die to get adequate case neck tension on the bullet. I load the Palma to 2850 fps with RX15. The load is generally accurate out to 1000 yards but now and then I get a flyer that I suspect is due to the minimal neck retention. I don`t know if this freebore situation exists in the other Rem rifles you mentioned but a friend tells me he has the same freebore in a Rem pump .30-06 so it may be a general Remington policy. Anyway, it is something to consider when buying a Remington target rifle.

 

[6BRonwheels]

I would suggest going with a Savage F class rifle or one of the variations. They are very accurate out of the box.

 

[people]

I have a Rem 700 VS LH in 308 and they do have a very long freebore. I had to load all of my ammo very long. I was shooting some 168gr serbian bullets and they were only in the case about .1' if that. I dropped a box into my trunk and almost all of the bullets came out. I took it in to the gunsmith and he set the tube back far enough to recut it with a reamer he had and now it shoots those cheap bullets very well. My best group was just under three inches at 562yds. That was for 5 shots.

Now if I really want to spend a little more per shot and not get the ocasional odd flyer I will shoot the 175gr smk and shoot about 2.5 to 3.5 inch groups with regularity at 600yds. Granted all the smallest groups are all shot on days when the wind was very lite.

It hurts me to bash Rem but they do not have the consistant accuracy savage has.

 

[KaiserNorton]

Well, this certainly doesn't instill me with confidence. I was hoping to go with the 700 as a starter rifle, and build off it at a later date. I have a couple of short 700's I could build off, but I don't really want to hack apart a .257 Roberts or a .260 Ti.

Kaiser Norton

 

[RJinTexas]

Have you thought about purchasing one of the new Savage Target Action, their Accu-Trigger will adjust down to a decent pull weight without the need of a smith, saving you the cost of a trigger job or having to purchase a after market trigger. You should be able build a dedicated 'F' rifle with a new after market pre-chambered pre-fit barrel and head space it yourself. Put it into a laminated stock with a 3' wide forearm. If your willing to bed and finish the stock yourself this can all be done for about $1200. Sharp Shooter Supply sell everything you'll need and Fred's a dedicated Savage expert, and his pre-fit Douglas SS barrels are top self and their laminates stocks are very well made. They also can do any of the work that you don't fill comfortable doing yourself.

Good luck with your project
RJ

 

[Travelor]

First, always get the longer barrels as they give you more velocity with the same load which is much better for long range shooting.

I would strongly recommend looking at the Savage Rifles. I have a BUNCH and love every one.

The least expensive way to get a Savage and get into long range shooting is the Savage 10FP in 308. Price is right and they SHOOT WELL. I have two of these and they consistently shoot in the .6' group sizes at 100 yards and hold up well out to 1000 yards. Most people look down on the plastic stocks, but they are 'OK' and get you shooting for less money initially,might consider changing the stock in the future after shooting it a while). http://www.savagearms.com/10fp.htm

Another way is to look at the Savage 12BVSS as it has a much better stock for target use, is in stainless steel, and has a 2' longer barrel: http://www.savagearms.com/12bvss.htm

One real plus to Savages is the ease in changing barrels and calibers should you decide to do so in the future.

I shoot Savages and hold a HIGH MASTER long range NRA qualification.

George

 

[HPMike800]

It's really not that much more to get a Savage F-T/R and then you have a good single shot action.

 

[rfair]

Kaiser,
don't get fooled into thinking that remington are no good!
I've had an LTR for years and that rifle will shoot 1/2 MOA or better out to 600 and you'd have to spend double to triple the money to show improvement under 300. My best friend has the 26' barreled Rem, police and I've seen him shoot a 2 1/2' inch group at 700 yds. Those remingtons shoot just fine.
Also, most of the custom rifle builders start with a remington action!
Although I'm not knocking the savage! They have a good rep as well!

Randy

 

[CaliRN]

Kaiser,
A few years ago I bought a 700 VSS that shot very good, in fact
my first groups at 600 yards were under 2'. I fiddled with that rifle for some time, got bored and bought a Shilen Select
Match barrel and it shot even better. Then a buddy gave me a hint about Savages, and considering he is a better shot, gave them a try. I now have three of them, and love the accuracy.
The Shilen barreled 700 still outshoots them MOST OF THE TIME,
but they cost much less. I started with a Model 10 in .308,
swapped the barrel out for a Stainless 26' barrel and have
never looked back. In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that
I have so much $$ invested in the 700, I would sell it to buy
more scopes. Yes, 700s have a lot of lawyer designed free-bore,
Yes, some 700s have the lawyer designed bolt lock device,
and Yes, Savages shoot. Wander over to Savage Shooters for
a look at some of what they write about.

PS- I did replace the following on all my Savages...
a. Changed the plastic trigger guard to steel
b. Changed the recoil lug
c. Restocked, used Kevin Rayhills Stockade Stocks
d. Glass bedded action and lug, floated the barrels


Good luck to you Sir,
CaliRN

 

[Johnboy]

hello,downsouth in S.C. we like the remington 5R milspec.out of 5 differant 5R's we can shoot the same loads.yes they all have the same freebore.we are all loading 168/175g smk's with 44-45g of varget,and O.A.L. is at 2.800.we will sometimes hold them out alittle but not much.the best so fare is .193 at 100 yrds and 1 1/2' group at 500 yrds.we think it's a jam up rifel for the money.but then again we all have our opinion.they also have it in 223 rem also with a 1:9 twist.hope this helps.
Johnboy

 

[Rust]

About a yeAr ago I decided to get a rifle for F/TR and the .308 class for local matches. Mainly to have two rifles to shoot at a single match given the then higher costs of travel. Settled on a 700P. Developement of the stock rifle has been slow due to work.

What I like:

1. The barrel is actually very stable and POI does not shift with a 20 round string, something I was surprised to find in a hammer forged barrel.

2. The action is machined properly and the dimensions are held pretty well, as in the scope mount fitted up with no problems, a serious issue with some 700s I have.

3. The trigger is decent enough to use and is in fact adjustable.

What I don't like:

1. The lawyer special chamber. Just plain sloppy large with huge amounts of freebore. This prevents an otherwise fine barrel from reaching its accuracy potential.

2. Way too much palm swell for me, and I have large hands.

What the future holds:

1. This may surprise some folks but the stock will be the first thing to go, I literally cannot stand the overly large palm swell and fit. Recently stock fit was driven home with a borrowed rifle at a match out west, the rifle was very accurate but fit me so poorly that it was difficult to shoot well, and I didn't shoot it very well.

2. Rechambering. I believe that I'll set the barrel back a little and run a match reamer in, as I stated before, the barrel seems to be very good except for the factory chambering... OR I may just get a medium Palma taper barrel,brand undecided at this point).

So my advice is to get a rifle you can shoot for a bit as is, and then find out what you'd like to change abot it. Judging by what I've seen at some matches, the Savage may be a better starting point. And one thing about a laminated Savage stock, a wood rasp will take care of things like palm swell and a band saw can fix length of pull quite handily.

So why did I get the 700P? It was hanging on the wall when I walked into the store.