.308 Berger Bullets Most Accurate?
- Thread starter BRBron
- Start date
That has more to do with the rifle than the bullet. Barrel twist rate and length will have a lot to do with it. Type of shooting being done will also make a big difference. I have shot the 175 VLDs and the 185 Jugs out a 10 twist both with great results, some guy are using 155.5 very well out to 1000yds. Berger makes great bullets, none more or less accurate than the rest, it all boils down to use and barrel.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Two yrs ago I had a load that consistently shot verticals in the .2s (moa) at 200 with 178 Hornadys. My last 308 hunting rifle would consistently put 165 SMKs into under .4 at 200 using unprepped Lake City brass, which is more than enough to kill deer as far as I am willing to take a shot.
For 300 to 600 yards you don't need heavy bullets, in fact the heavy boat tailed bullets are just beginning to pay dividends as you get to 600. Inside of that there are lots of bullets that will work very well, including flat based bullets (which if I understand it correctly is what the short range BR guys use) like the Sierra Pro Hunters series of bullets.
It will take the average shooter quite a while to learn the skill to consistently shoot under .5 no matter what the rifle can do. My gunsmith once told me he liked building rifles for me because I never brought them back complaining that they wouldn't group with surplus eastern European ammo.
For 300 to 600 yards you don't need heavy bullets, in fact the heavy boat tailed bullets are just beginning to pay dividends as you get to 600. Inside of that there are lots of bullets that will work very well, including flat based bullets (which if I understand it correctly is what the short range BR guys use) like the Sierra Pro Hunters series of bullets.
It will take the average shooter quite a while to learn the skill to consistently shoot under .5 no matter what the rifle can do. My gunsmith once told me he liked building rifles for me because I never brought them back complaining that they wouldn't group with surplus eastern European ammo.
nastynatesfish
A day which we will live in infamy
I'd shoot the 155 class. I wouldn't spend the coin on the heavy or bergers. If you want heavy. I'd shoot 175. Get a 11 twist barrel. It'll shoot the 155 and 175 bullets. I like the Sierra match kings or nosler custom comps mor than bergers in 308. Just my .02
My Shilen barrel 308 likes 155 gr SMK Palma bullets and IMR 4064
These are 5 shot groups at 200 yards , first one is .482 of an inch or .234 MOA the second one is .297 of an inch and .141MOA --this is a 1/12 twist zero freebore on a savage target action trued by Lester Bruno, the barrel is a Bull type nut type from shilen with .340 neck
These are 5 shot groups at 200 yards , first one is .482 of an inch or .234 MOA the second one is .297 of an inch and .141MOA --this is a 1/12 twist zero freebore on a savage target action trued by Lester Bruno, the barrel is a Bull type nut type from shilen with .340 neck
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mshelton
I shoot the 155 VLD hunting Bergers out of mine, accurate with a nice trajectory, not like sooting a mortar with the heavies.
[br]mshelton said:
A 155 VLD at 3000 fps has a maximum ordinate of 28.1" when zeroed at 600. My F-TR rifle, shooting 230 Hybrids at 2460 fps, has a maximum ordinate of 33.9". That's a difference of 5.8" over 600 yards. [br]
Moving the zero to 1000 makes the comparison almost even. The 230 has a maximum ordinate of 116.0" and the 155 VLD 115.8". Hardly a mortar. Loaded to equal pressure in the same cartridge, B.C. will always win.
mshelton
Steve Blair said:
WTF is an ordinate, sounds like some GI Joe crap
[br]mshelton said:
Ordinate is a mathematics term. In ballistics, maximum ordinate is the highest trajectory point above the horizontal line of sight.
mshelton
The OP said he's hunting to a max of 600yds, the 155 out performs the 185 to that distance in a 308, no need to chuck the heavies.
The bullet that will be most accurate is the bullet that YOUR barrel likes. My barrel likes 155.5gr Berger Fullbore and does very well out to 1000yds with it. Theres more then just ballistics, some barrels will shoot other bullets better then others. Just choose a bullet and see how your rifle likes it. Most 155gr bullets will group tighter then the heavys but thats not hard and fast either. Pick a bullet and load that gives least vertical and groups tight as hell at the range you shoot at.
mshelton said:
That is not what the OP said. I also believe your statement is incorrect. He did say 300-600 shooting and hunting. If it was a lot of 300 yard shooting I may believe that the 155 will do you justice, but even at that distance a lot can happen in the wind. Now just think about the next 300 yards....
mshelton
The 155 bullet will out perform the 185 from 300 to 600 in a hunting situation.
Lets look at the numbers;
Someone mentioned getting the 185s to 2770 in a 308, probably a little wishfull for a rifle you will take hunting so we'll use the numbers from the Hodgdon site for 60k pressure and the highest velocity shown. They list the 155 as 2966 and unfortunately they do not have a 185 but they do list a 190 at 2589 and a 180 at 2615 so for arguments sake we split that to 2602.
Using Berger's online ballistic calculator we get the following results for a 10mph 90deg wind (windage and drop are in MOA);
Berger 155 vld
yards fps drop windage
100 2754 0 0.67
200 2550 -1.48 1.36
300 2355 -3.68 2.11
400 2169 -6.28 2.92
500 1991 -9.26 3.8
600 1821 -12.65 4.75
Berger 185 vld
yards fps drop windage
100 2443 0 0.59
200 2290 -2.07 1.25
300 2143 -4.87 1.95
400 2001 -8.08 2.7
500 1864 -11.66 3.5
600 1732 -15.65 4.37
As you can see the 155 does give up a small amount in the wind, less than .5" at 300 and a fuzz over 2.25" at 600. But the 155 shoots flatter at a much greater advantage, dropping just a hair over 11" at 300yds vs over 14.5" with the 185 and an 18" advantage at 600 (75.9" to 93.9").
Now if I could get whitetails trained to stand at a set distance, then sure I'd chuck the bricks at them just like shooting paper but they don't. You can range landmarks from your stand and get a pretty good idea, heck you may have time to get a good range on one hanging out in the open and letting you take your sweet time about it but we all know that doesn't always happen. So we end up at times taking an educated guess on distances.
With the flatter shooting bullet you have more distance forgiveness, you still have to compensate for the wind but with and with the 185 you have a tad more forgiveness there but it doesn't make up for the larger margin of error you have for distance with the 155. Slow and steady is great for paper punching but speed will win out in hunting, the 155 is a good balance of that. You could go to a 125 Nosler but then what you make up for in trajectory, you give up way too much in deflection.
There's also nothing wrong with the 185 but there are much better chamberings than the 308 to use it in a hunting application, WinMag, WSM, SAUM etc. Match a bullet to the chamber for practical purposes.
Lets look at the numbers;
Someone mentioned getting the 185s to 2770 in a 308, probably a little wishfull for a rifle you will take hunting so we'll use the numbers from the Hodgdon site for 60k pressure and the highest velocity shown. They list the 155 as 2966 and unfortunately they do not have a 185 but they do list a 190 at 2589 and a 180 at 2615 so for arguments sake we split that to 2602.
Using Berger's online ballistic calculator we get the following results for a 10mph 90deg wind (windage and drop are in MOA);
Berger 155 vld
yards fps drop windage
100 2754 0 0.67
200 2550 -1.48 1.36
300 2355 -3.68 2.11
400 2169 -6.28 2.92
500 1991 -9.26 3.8
600 1821 -12.65 4.75
Berger 185 vld
yards fps drop windage
100 2443 0 0.59
200 2290 -2.07 1.25
300 2143 -4.87 1.95
400 2001 -8.08 2.7
500 1864 -11.66 3.5
600 1732 -15.65 4.37
As you can see the 155 does give up a small amount in the wind, less than .5" at 300 and a fuzz over 2.25" at 600. But the 155 shoots flatter at a much greater advantage, dropping just a hair over 11" at 300yds vs over 14.5" with the 185 and an 18" advantage at 600 (75.9" to 93.9").
Now if I could get whitetails trained to stand at a set distance, then sure I'd chuck the bricks at them just like shooting paper but they don't. You can range landmarks from your stand and get a pretty good idea, heck you may have time to get a good range on one hanging out in the open and letting you take your sweet time about it but we all know that doesn't always happen. So we end up at times taking an educated guess on distances.
With the flatter shooting bullet you have more distance forgiveness, you still have to compensate for the wind but with and with the 185 you have a tad more forgiveness there but it doesn't make up for the larger margin of error you have for distance with the 155. Slow and steady is great for paper punching but speed will win out in hunting, the 155 is a good balance of that. You could go to a 125 Nosler but then what you make up for in trajectory, you give up way too much in deflection.
There's also nothing wrong with the 185 but there are much better chamberings than the 308 to use it in a hunting application, WinMag, WSM, SAUM etc. Match a bullet to the chamber for practical purposes.
I would just shoot a 90 gr vld out of a 22 hornet. The wind wouldn't bother it but a slingshot may reach out there farther. Shoot a 155 in a .308. The lighter recoil will allow you shoot more rapidly and not lose conditions unless you want to build a 60 pounder. Look at what the Palma shooters use. Of course you could start the newest trend and shoot 115gr vlds in a ppc or 230 in a 30br and show the 100-300 yds guys the proper way.
mshelton
A 230 in a 30br might work for a score match, arcing that thing in would probably create a larger hole resulting in more Xs.
You sir may have just revolutionized that class.
You sir may have just revolutionized that class.
Without trying to start any more of an argument then is already going on : I look for FPE at the same time as accuracy and so on when I build a hunting round. I will always lean towards the delivered energy side. I 'm also not saying that the 155 does not deliver enough energy. I have never ran these numbers for hunting with these bullets, but could if I wanted too.
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