300-Yard F-Class Scoring Question

[RDA72927]

I have a rules question. First the background for the question. My local F-Class matches only have a 300-yard berm without any pit service. So, we shoot blind. I have been through the High-Power rules book and scoring is only addressed as to using a pit service. Now, we only shoot Approved matches not Registered. So, only our scores count, nothing for any kind of NRA Record.

Ok, now the question. Since the matches are only Approved, after the NRA MR63FC is posted and sign by the shooter, would it be legal to install a white overlay target of the correct size over the target for score. At 300 we can see our holes on white. After the 20-shot sting is completed, pull the overlay off and score the MR63FC like we already do.

I’ve learned to shoot this course of fire and doing well now. But, anytime there is a newbie, it is very frustrating try to learn this game. You only have the ability to learn by group, not by shot like a shooter could at any club that has pit service. I’ve thought of this for a while and have hesitated to post the question. But post #22 on http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/shot-my-1st-f-t-r-match-today.3943731/page-2#post-37139295 caused me to go ahead and ask.

I travel to shoot with my brother and we have been lucky enough to get a great deal of support from the Bayou group of shooters in our first year of shooting F-Class. I would like to see the sport grow in my area and help the way I’ve been helped. But it is tuff learning group to group instead of shot to shot.

Robert Abbott

 

[ShootDots]

I shot at Peru Rod and Gun Club (New York) where they held 300 yard F-Class matches where they were held exactly like what you have described. What they did was have a 15 minute sight-in period just prior to the first match. Went and changed targets and there were NO sighters from there on out in all three matches. You shot only 15 shots per match. Every match required a new target. These were ALL REGISTERED MATCHES that met all the NRA requirements. But this was several years ago, if it has changed, that would be news to me..

 

[Ned Ludd]

Robert, our matches in San Diego were "Approved", so I'd assume the NRA was aware of our use of the Shoot-N-C target over the NRA target from the information provided to them by the match director during the approval process. However, this is not a question I ever recall specifically asking the match director, so I can't state that with 100% certainty. I'm sure the NRA Competition Office could answer your question: https://contact.nra.org/contact-us.aspx.

Personally, I don't think the use of overlay splatter targets is any "advantage". Certainly it is not as effective as the shot and scoring markers used at ranges that have pits and target carriers, especially after the overlay splatter target center gets shot up about halfway through a string. However, it is MUCH better than blindly shooting at the target with little to no feedback regarding shot placement during a long string of fire, as would otherwise be necessitated for ranges that simply don't have pits/target carriers. Under perfect lighting conditions with a very good spotting scope, it is certainly possible to see holes in the NRA target at 300 yd. But it is equally likely that only some fraction of the total number of shooters will have a scope that allows them to visualize their impacts. IMO - the splatter target overlays simply level the playing field for all shooters. The shots can easily be visualized through the rifle scope, so even a spotting scope isn't essential to see the impacts.

 

[Taildrag15X]

I'm thinking the Tournament would have to be shot using the official NRA MR63FC Target face, as my experience as RSO/NRA liaison for Peru Rod and Gun Club.

I had approached the NRA HP Div. with this subject of an "overlay" target/sighting object and was instructed for Sighters it was fine but For Record shots needed to be on Official Targets for 300 yd. slow fire prone.

While this was for Registered Tournaments with full support of the NRA between 2008-2011, I would not want to guess what they will say today.

 

[Albany Mountain]

Official targets are listed in the rulebook.

 

[Taildrag15X]

Robert, our matches in San Diego were "Approved", so I'd assume the NRA was aware of our use of the Shoot-N-C target over the NRA target from the information provided to them by the match director during the approval process. However, this is not a question I ever recall specifically asking the match director, so I can't state that with 100% certainty. I'm sure the NRA Competition Office could answer your question: https://contact.nra.org/contact-us.aspx.

Personally, I don't think the use of overlay splatter targets is any "advantage". Certainly it is not as effective as the shot and scoring markers used at ranges that have pits and target carriers, especially after the overlay splatter target center gets shot up about halfway through a string. However, it is MUCH better than blindly shooting at the target with little to no feedback regarding shot placement during a long string of fire, as would otherwise be necessitated for ranges that simply don't have pits/target carriers. Under perfect lighting conditions with a very good spotting scope, it is certainly possible to see holes in the NRA target at 300 yd. But it is equally likely that only some fraction of the total number of shooters will have a scope that allows them to visualize their impacts. IMO - the splatter target overlays simply level the playing field for all shooters. The shots can easily be visualized through the rifle scope, so even a spotting scope isn't essential to see the impacts.

gstaylorg

Do you have a copy of a Match Program where it states the Shoot-N-See targets will be placed over the face of the MR63FC?

 

[dskogman]

Seems like black targets are an artifact of iron sight shooting anyway. Really makes no sense for F Class. Blue like benchrest or white would be better ?

 

[TerryH]

Seems like black targets are an artifact of iron sight shooting anyway. Really makes no sense for F Class. Blue like benchrest or white would be better ?

Either would have to be better.

 

[Ned Ludd]

gstaylorg

Do you have a copy of a Match Program where it states the Shoot-N-See targets will be placed over the face of the MR63FC?

I haven't shot in that match in about a year and a half, but I'll see if I can get a copy from the match director.

 

[Taildrag15X]

Seems like black targets are an artifact of iron sight shooting anyway. Really makes no sense for F Class. Blue like benchrest or white would be better ?

F-Class is High Power or Fulbore Rifle, F-Class is not Benchrest, if you want to shoot on a blue target, shoot Benchrest IMHO.

A discipline that was started so us older guys with bad vision or inability to hold position is why F-Class was started. If you want to see bullet holes use a spotting scope like sling shooters or a more powerful optic on your rifle.

 

[kzin]

If it came down to it I'd rather be able to see the shots than have the NRA Approval.

 

[MGYSGT]

We also use 8" Shoot N See's here in Lake Havasu City. We put them over the 300 yard F Class targets. You get instant target correction just like with the target pullers used at Ben Avery. What's important is that you get shot placement at the time. Gotta be careful peeling them off to score underneath. Besides, you are shooting at the official F Class target. It is no different that spotters used in the pitts. The spotters are overlaid on the target as well.

 

[kzin]

Is there any technical reason the shoot-n-see makers couldn't make accurate mr63f's?

I could use some mr52s, even

 

[Nowhere Man]

Is there any technical reason the shoot-n-see makers couldn't make accurate mr63f's?

I could use some mr52s, even

They'd get sued by the NRA.

 

[kzin]

They'd get sued by the NRA.

I was assuming NRA approval.

If not just call 'em f300s or whatever. I doubt if dimensions are copyrighted.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I was assuming NRA approval.

If not just call 'em f300s or whatever. I doubt if dimensions are copyrighted.

To shoot NRA Registered or Approved matches, you need to use targets from NRA licensed targets manufacturers. http://competitions.nra.org/nra-licensed-target-manufacturers.aspx

 

[kzin]

To shoot NRA Registered or Approved matches, you need to use targets from NRA licensed targets manufacturers. http://competitions.nra.org/nra-licensed-target-manufacturers.aspx

I know the current situation.
My question was if a s&s could be made to an accuracy of dimension that could be used in matches and possibly approved in the future.

 

[TerryH]

I realize that the playing field is level for all competitors but I can't help but think about what the results of these relays could have been if one was able to see the shots as they were being made...





I also realize that this would necessitate a very unlikely rule change.

 

[Taildrag15X]

I realize that the playing field is level for all competitors but I can't help but think about what the results of these relays could have been if one was able to see the shots as they were being made...





I also realize that this would necessitate a very unlikely rule change.

Why can't you see the holes with a spotting scope? I did for years in High Power, along with everyone else on the line.

MGYSGT A target "shot spotter" is just that, it identifies the last shot, it's not designed to be an "aiming point" although orange golf tees make nice ones till you smack it.

 

[TerryH]

Why can't you see the holes with a spotting scope? I did for years in High Power, along with everyone else on the line.

MGYSGT A target "shot spotter" is just that, it identifies the last shot, it's not designed to be an "aiming point" although orange golf tees make nice ones till you smack it.

Could not see them with my 60x spotting scope nor my 10-50x60 Sightron. Neither could anyone else on the line other than a couple of people that had much better/more expensinve spotting scopes than I have. Guess it comes down to a spotting scope contest at that point.