300 WSM vs SAUM

[Evan]

Hi all,

This is just a theory/fun question, but why do you think the 300 WSM caught on in BR/F-class and the 300 SAUM has faltered? Does the SAUM not quite reach a node that the big bullets like, or is there some other reason?

I'm daydreaming about what my big, bad weather BR gun will be chambered in and I really like the SAUM but it just isn't used much and I'd think it would be really popular.

 

[ShootDots]

I have 2 .300WSMs that I use for F-Open. I would bet that if you made the .300 SAUM into and IMPROVED (Ackley) it would do everything that the WSM would do. My 215 gr Hybrid load is running at 2905-2910 and my WSM using the 200-20Xs is running at 2930+. I believe that if you make the SAUM into and Ackley and use RL-23, I believe you can reach those velocities without a problem..

 

[Evan]

I have 2 .300WSMs that I use for F-Open. I would bet that if you made the .300 SAUM into and IMPROVED (Ackley) it would do everything that the WSM would do. My 215 gr Hybrid load is running at 2905-2910 and my WSM using the 200-20Xs is running at 2930+. I believe that if you make the SAUM into and Ackley and use RL-23, I believe you can reach those velocities without a problem..

What sort of barrel life do you think you'll see out of your 300 WSM?

A 300 SAUM-Ackley might shave a couple grains off a WSM load while achieving the same speed, but that seems like a poor tradeoff when you need to buy all custom (dies, reamer) and fireform to get going when compared to a WSM with off the shelf stuff everywhere ready to go. Well I guess that could be a big reason: the 300 SAUM is perceived as too slow and the WSM is the next notch up.

 

[ShootDots]

I am not sure what my barrel life is, as these are my first barrels. But judging from the round count now and the barrel wear, my guess is close to 2000 rounds>>>but that remains to be seen.. You may even get the speeds necessary with a "straight" SAUM, however, it would be at the top node and barrel life would definitely suffer. Improve it, lower the pressure to gain the same velocity and you may be in business. On the other hand, the "work" is already done for you with a WSM!

 

[bcarico]

Brass quality...

 

[Evan]

Brass quality...

Both have Norma brass available. Is the Norma SAUM worse than the WSM?

 

[bcarico]

Really I didn't know Norma made SAUM. Have they made it as long as they have for the wsm?

 

[ShootDots]

I used to have a 7mm SAUM and I used Norma brass for both. It is excellent stuff. I don't understand your question "is the Norma SAUM worse than the WSM? I am not sure what you are asking..

 

[Evan]

Really I didn't know Norma made SAUM. Have they made it as long as they have for the wsm?

I know it's been around for a while, but I'm not sure when the two were picked up, respectively.

 

[Evan]

I used to have a 7mm SAUM and I use Norma brass for both. It is excellent stuff. I don't understand your question "is the Norma SAUM worse than the WSM? I am not sure what you are asking..

Bcarico mentioned brass quality, and I thought he was suggesting the Norma WSM brass was better than the SAUM.

 

[ShootDots]

I use Norma brass in the .300WSM and I used it in the 7 SAUM>>>>It is excellent brass! It is strong and very uniform..

 

[dave7mm]

Hi all,

This is just a theory/fun question, but why do you think the 300 WSM caught on in BR/F-class and the 300 SAUM has faltered?

Monkey see.
Monkey do.


dave

 

[SHall]

I have 2 .300WSMs that I use for F-Open. I would bet that if you made the .300 SAUM into and IMPROVED (Ackley) it would do everything that the WSM would do. My 215 gr Hybrid load is running at 2905-2910 and my WSM using the 200-20Xs is running at 2930+. I believe that if you make the SAUM into and Ackley and use RL-23, I believe you can reach those velocities without a problem..

The 300 SAUM Ackley Improved is exactly what I have been getting together for many months now. It has 40 degree shoulders and the minimal body taper. I am trying to make a 300 Mag version of the 6BR-AI. Several years ago when I started to build a 300WSM, the Norma brass for it was impossible to find, but you could find 300 SAUM Norma brass. I thought about a 300SAUM Improved then. A little later you could find both easily, but if you will notice the WSM brass is substantially more expensive. I figure that is supply/demand. I have shot the 300WSM and it has done well in 1000 yard BR. I would recommend it unless you are like me: experimenting and trying to (slightly) improve something. Samuel Hall

 

[Evan]

The 300 SAUM Ackley Improved is exactly what I have been getting together for many months now. It has 40 degree shoulders and the minimal body taper. I am trying to make a 300 Mag version of the 6BR-AI. Several years ago when I started to build a 300WSM, the Norma brass for it was impossible to find, but you could find 300 SAUM Norma brass. I thought about a 300SAUM Improved then. A little later you could find both easily, but if you will notice the WSM brass is substantially more expensive. I figure that is supply/demand. I have shot the 300WSM and it has done well in 1000 yard BR. I would recommend it unless you are like me: experimenting and trying to (slightly) improve something. Samuel Hall

I think it'd be neat to push the shoulder down 0.010 or so and blow it out to a 40 degree with less body taper. Get a little more neck, maintain capacity. Maybe I'll do it once I get some money together for another rifle. I just want to shoot the new super heavy 30s in the 2800 range and I think 60gns or so of powder would get there in a 30inch barrel.

 

[ShootDots]

The 300 SAUM Ackley Improved is exactly what I have been getting together for many months now. It has 40 degree shoulders and the minimal body taper. I am trying to make a 300 Mag version of the 6BR-AI. Several years ago when I started to build a 300WSM, the Norma brass for it was impossible to find, but you could find 300 SAUM Norma brass. I thought about a 300SAUM Improved then. A little later you could find both easily, but if you will notice the WSM brass is substantially more expensive. I figure that is supply/demand. I have shot the 300WSM and it has done well in 1000 yard BR. I would recommend it unless you are like me: experimenting and trying to (slightly) improve something. Samuel Hall

Well I'll tell you Sam, I L-O-V-E to "tinker" with new things! New cases, Ackley"ize" them, etc..etc.. to see what it could do in either hunting situations or now in F-Open. I honestly think I have shot nigh onto about everything there is and some there 'taint! But in my "later and hopefully "wiser" years", I need some simplification! So, as of late, I basically am down to 2 / .300WSMs and a soon to finish 7mm Sherman Short Mag! I think I may have to go through some "withdrawal" symptoms>>>but I really did need to simplify. I do think that if you made a .300 SAUM Improved it would be a GREAT cartridge>>>BUT to what end? Would it be BETTER than a .300WSM? There is only one way to find out>>>but I think that there may not be a penny's worth of difference! But that would not take away from the fact that it would be a great cartridge! Hey, give it a shot>>>what can it hurt??

 

[Laurie]

I'm just starting out with the SAUM. If I were still shooting F at national level, I'd likely have opted for the WSM given its reputation and the experience now around with it, but for club matches I preferred the look of the slightly smaller cased round and it seemed a little more of a challenge. Obtaining Norma brass in the UK was easy enough and cheaper (or maybe I should change that to less expensive) than I expected although I've bought some common or garden R-P too and batched, neck-turned it to get it consistent.

Some initial use with 200 Hybrids and 195gn Sierra TMKs aside, its use will be 180/185/190s of which I have many older models on hand from my F/TR days and as everybody wants Hybrids or 200.20Xs these days in this discipline, trying to give away never mind sell old JLK and Berger VLDs would likely be a hard task, so the SAUM will be a bit of fun, hopefully shoot very well with them and use them up that way. Loads / pressures / velocities will be F/TR +P rather than full-house Open, so I'm hoping barrel life will be reasonable too.

Interestingly enough, I met Gary Costello on my range visit to run the barrel in, sight the scope in and get step 1 of some possible load combinations on paper. Gary is currently tearing up the GB national F-Class scene with a Speedy Gonzales built 300WSM so far this season making many wonder if the 7WSM is still the unbeatable cartridge here after all.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=Costello&submit=Search

That was the season opener of our national championship and our annual sole short-distance round. He took Round 2 too by a clear 5 points (10 in US scoring) from the runner-up with his 300WSM! This was also at Diggle, but now split 800/1,000 yards and he won three of the four stages and set a new GB 800 yard 20-round match record score of 100.16v. (Paul Sandie won the remaining stage also shooting a 300WSM.)

https://gbfclass.com/2019/05/21/2019-diggle-round-2/

Anyway, Gary intrigued me by telling me that probably the most accurate of the (many) superb F-Open rifles he has owned and used over the years was a 300SAUM. Unfortunately, he didn't say why he hadn't stuck with it nor did I ask. (It may simply have been that 7mm bullets were too far ahead of 30s in their ballistics at the time.)

 

[ShootDots]

I'm just starting out with the SAUM. If I were still shooting F at national level, I'd likely have opted for the WSM given its reputation and the experience now around with it, but for club matches I preferred the look of the slightly smaller cased round and it seemed a little more of a challenge. Obtaining Norma brass in the UK was easy enough and cheaper (or maybe I should change that to less expensive) than I expected although I've bought some common or garden R-P too and batched, neck-turned it to get it consistent.

Some initial use with 200 Hybrids and 195gn Sierra TMKs aside, its use will be 180/185/190s of which I have many older models on hand from my F/TR days and as everybody wants Hybrids or 200.20Xs these days in this discipline, trying to give away never mind sell old JLK and Berger VLDs would likely be a hard task, so the SAUM will be a bit of fun, hopefully shoot very well with them and use them up that way. Loads / pressures / velocities will be F/TR +P rather than full-house Open, so I'm hoping barrel life will be reasonable too.

Interestingly enough, I met Gary Costello on my range visit to run the barrel in, sight the scope in and get step 1 of some possible load combinations on paper. Gary is currently tearing up the GB national F-Class scene with a Speedy Gonzales built 300WSM so far this season making many wonder if the 7WSM is still the unbeatable cartridge here after all.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=Costello&submit=Search

That was the season opener of our national championship and our annual sole short-distance round. He took Round 2 too by a clear 5 points (10 in US scoring) from the runner-up with his 300WSM! This was also at Diggle, but now split 800/1,000 yards and he won three of the four stages and set a new GB 800 yard 20-round match record score of 100.16v. (Paul Sandie won the remaining stage also shooting a 300WSM.)

https://gbfclass.com/2019/05/21/2019-diggle-round-2/

Anyway, Gary intrigued me by telling me that probably the most accurate of the (many) superb F-Open rifles he has owned and used over the years was a 300SAUM. Unfortunately, he didn't say why he hadn't stuck with it nor did I ask. (It may simply have been that 7mm bullets were too far ahead of 30s in their ballistics at the time.)

I think that the 30 caliber cartridges are presently on the UPswing and will become more and more prevalent with records and wins that seem to be coming at every turn. Keep your eyes peeled Laurie, I believe that within 2 years there will be almost as many .300s on the line as 7mms! Let's see if my prognostications prove correct!