300 PRC
- Thread starter Punxsy Guy
- Start date
Last sidetrack comment I swear.
I came to my conclusion based on flying by the seat of my pants. My pants might be better than most because I tend to stay on the more conservative side of bleeding edge velocity numbers. Although there isn't really a scientific process here; I just ended up doing my testing in super hot weather.
The load that I use basically mimics what everyone on the internet says they use for the 215s; 78 grains of H1000 in an A191 Chamber loaded to 3.650 or wherever 20 thou short of the throat happens to be. I'm two grains short of the max charge I have tested; I don't know where the ejector marks or super flat primers start but I'm not testing it; it might be 80.5...it might be 82...don't know and don't want to find out through the error part of trial and error.
My overall length is about .200 longer than 3.450; maybe a little more with throat erosion now. And I don't subscribe to the "don't clean your gun unless it shoots bad" school of thought.
With the 220 Scenars I am still around 3.600 OAL. But I only shoot that bullet at 2900fps because it has a longer bearing surface and it isn't really good enough to justify trying to get the last little tiny bit out of it.
Norma brass is also 20gr lighter than Hornady. I don't know how it compares to anything else but I figure it's on the lighter side. There's gotta be a little more capacity in there right?
Same idea for the 215 cheese Berger...it's a little shorter in the bearing surface area than the 220 Scenar or Match King.
Sorry for the side bar with my 1950s technology. I have figured out a way that works for me. I'm sure the PRC does 30 caliber magnum things well.
I've never messed with the 215's or the 220 Scenars to give you any accurate measurements. Only the 220smk.
The longer/pointed type bullets like the VLD's most likely you would have to seat out further/hence forth a longer overall length.
76.5gr. of H1000 with a 220gr. puts you in the 72k psi range.
Yes I would agree that a lighter case does help offset/lower pressure some and you can run a heavier powder charge but I don't have any number for a comparison sake on pressures. So be careful with that.
The longer/pointed type bullets like the VLD's most likely you would have to seat out further/hence forth a longer overall length.
76.5gr. of H1000 with a 220gr. puts you in the 72k psi range.
Yes I would agree that a lighter case does help offset/lower pressure some and you can run a heavier powder charge but I don't have any number for a comparison sake on pressures. So be careful with that.
I guess I am confused. You made a statement of fact in this comment and then later say you 1) have never messed with a 215 Berger and 2)your COAL tested was 3.45". The 215 has a very short bearing surface and most of us run it closer to 3.7". I think we all know when we actually start seeing pressure signs we are actually over pressure. 99% of us have no way to check for pressure other than brass and extraction.
L.Sherm
Silver $$ Contributor
Is this your load Frank?
No and I wouldn’t run that load thru my gun. It’s a load that I have data that was run thru ammunition test barrels.
Correct...just because you have no extractor marks or ejector marks and or no heavy bolt lift you have no way of measuring pressure but just because it’s not there/you don’t see it doesn’t mean the pressure is not there.
The 3.450” o.a.l. Is actually the shortest. 3.475” was the average used. I just went and pulled my sample rounds given to me by an ammunition maker. 3.500” was max.
I’ve got 210VLD’s at home here and just measured a A191 chamber/brand new barrel. At 3.560” o.a.l. The bullet touches the rifling. I don’t have any 215’s here but just don’t see that much of a difference between a 215 and a 210 that you can seat them out to 3.7”.
I’ve got loaded ammo with 210’s at 3.680” o.a.l. And it will not chamber.
I’d like to see the reamer drawing of the reamer that was used to chamber your barrel. Would you have one?
One of the guys at work has shot 215’s thru his WM. I ordered a reamer for his gun based on his sample rounds. His throat is way longer than the A191 chamber. He seats his bullets out to around 3.720” o.a.l.
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My statement really had nothing to do with me it had to do with you saying he was at 80k yet you have never tested 215 Bergers seated out where most are seating. Again I am not saying most guys are not running over pressure I was just confused by you making a statement of fact based off different bullets in different chambers. In my current chamber 215s touch at 3.680"
I'm running H1000 currently in my PRC. I'll probably be trying some RL26 this summer.
Attached are a couple of prints for you to look at. The .300wm A191 reamer and our .300wm Bartlein reamer. The Bartlein reamer has a .125" longer throat than the A191. Dave here in the shop use to shoot the 215's thru his gun and the bullets would touch the lands at a 3.720" o.a.l.
His rounds at 3.720" will not chamber in a A191 chamber either.
His max load was 76.5gr. of H1000. He doesn't run the 215's anymore in that gun.
My statement really had nothing to do with me it had to do with you saying he was at 80k yet you have never tested 215 Bergers seated out where most are seating. Again I am not saying most guys are not running over pressure I was just confused by you making a statement of fact based off different bullets in different chambers. In my current chamber 215s touch at 3.680"
Your print is a standard Saami min. spec. chamber. Not the A191 chamber.
Yes, That is what I said pages back.
Thanks for the H1000 answer. Have you tried 215M primers?
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223762
Silver $$ Contributor
Yes, I have tried 215M, 210 match, cci 250 and cci 200. The cci 200 gave me the best ES and SD plus smaller groups. The cci 200 cut my ES and SD in half. The cci 200s were about 12 FPS slower then the cci 250 and about the same for the 215m. I’m not saying they won’t work for you, but you need to test what your gun likes. The cci 200s also did just fine in teen degree weather.
That question was for frank. If you are going to say what primers you used you should also state the powder and bullets. Frank had already stated the other information in the thread.
Dave does a ton of shooting and has won matches to boot. He loads a lot of .300wm besides his 6.5CM and .308FTR gun, .223 etc....
In my PRC I've only shot Fed 210M and the CCI 200's. Dave pushed me to try the CCI and gave me a box. I'm glad he did as I wouldn't have given them a chance. I use mostly 210M and CCIBR primers.
The 210Ms my SD where pretty consistent at about 13 but when I shot the CCI's (Same day same conditions, powder, bullet etc... and the only change was the primer) and the CCI's dropped my SD's to single digits. Usually in the 6.5 to 9 range. I've confirmed that 3 different times now.
For reference I did have my .300PRC ammo run thru a pressure test barrel. I won't give out my powder charge but for reference...
At 1gr. over the max pressure load the pressure went up about 1k psi.
3gr. over max load the pressure jumped about another 5k psi over max. So this load was right about 70k-71k psi.
The load at 3gr. over max shot excellent accuracy wise (I did fire 10 rounds thru my gun as well at 900 yards prior to the ammo being run thru a pressure test barrel) and in my gun I had no heavy bolt lift, no flat primers, no abnormal marks on the brass or expansion on the web etc...and I will say even though the load shot great and accuracy was excellent I won't use it anymore. That's why I will be trying a different powder to see if I can get a little more velocity without having the extra pressure.
So like I pointed out just because you are not seeing any type of pressure signs doesn't mean it's not there.
I like velocity as much as the next guy but I always say go for the accuracy first along with the safety being in there as well. A difference of another 100fps isn't going to help me win a match necessarily (doesn't hurt either). What I want out of my ammo is good reliable ammo that shoots consistent in any conditions, temperature etc...I want a good working every day load, day in and day out.
At 1gr. over the max pressure load the pressure went up about 1k psi.
3gr. over max load the pressure jumped about another 5k psi over max. So this load was right about 70k-71k psi.
The load at 3gr. over max shot excellent accuracy wise (I did fire 10 rounds thru my gun as well at 900 yards prior to the ammo being run thru a pressure test barrel) and in my gun I had no heavy bolt lift, no flat primers, no abnormal marks on the brass or expansion on the web etc...and I will say even though the load shot great and accuracy was excellent I won't use it anymore. That's why I will be trying a different powder to see if I can get a little more velocity without having the extra pressure.
So like I pointed out just because you are not seeing any type of pressure signs doesn't mean it's not there.
I like velocity as much as the next guy but I always say go for the accuracy first along with the safety being in there as well. A difference of another 100fps isn't going to help me win a match necessarily (doesn't hurt either). What I want out of my ammo is good reliable ammo that shoots consistent in any conditions, temperature etc...I want a good working every day load, day in and day out.
X's 2
A accurate load out weighs all options.
Folks that have those big bores should be happy considering that they are a big jump over the mid size case rifles.
My 308 will not keep pace with today's land canons ,,, so be happy that your Magnum cartrage delivers excellant performance beyond what my little dragon can throw out there for energy.
I tapped it kool in my 300 and 338 days ,,, both of them would out perform my 30/06 with heavier boolitz ,,, that's a plus all on its own.
Happy hunting all
A accurate load out weighs all options.
Folks that have those big bores should be happy considering that they are a big jump over the mid size case rifles.
My 308 will not keep pace with today's land canons ,,, so be happy that your Magnum cartrage delivers excellant performance beyond what my little dragon can throw out there for energy.
I tapped it kool in my 300 and 338 days ,,, both of them would out perform my 30/06 with heavier boolitz ,,, that's a plus all on its own.
Happy hunting all
My win mag with 215’s and H1000 is running low-mid 3000fps out of a 28” tube. PRC would do the same or a bit better I imagine
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