300 blk load question

[ballisticdaddy]

Funny this is an old thread. I never cared much for 300BO. 220 grain subs were impossible with CFE-BLK because of case capacity.

But I recently fell in love with 190 subx bullets and 12.3 grains of CFE-BLK. (I'm moving to a property where I can shoot, and there will be critters, so I was motivated

I have a 16" bolt gun in 300BO for critters and it loves 220gr Barrys over H110 (9.2 grains), with my Nomad Ti it makes everyone that shoots it giggle!

 

[SkullyDogPDW]

Funny this is an old thread. I never cared much for 300BO. 220 grain subs were impossible with CFE-BLK because of case capacity.

But I recently fell in love with 190 subx bullets and 12.3 grains of CFE-BLK. (I'm moving to a property where I can shoot, and there will be critters, so I was motivated

Yeah, I used to use CFE BLK. But with 200 grain subs it was loud, gassy and very dirty. I just bought a lifetime supply of N110 (8 pounds,) and said goodbye to CFE. I'm not going to miss the dirt and puffs of gas in my face.

 

[LVLAaron]

Yeah, I used to use CFE BLK. But with 200 grain subs it was loud, gassy and very dirty. I just bought a lifetime supply of N110 (8 pounds,) and said goodbye to CFE. I'm not going to miss the dirt and puffs of gas in my face.

OK it's not just me. It's filthy... I've got 8-10lbs to burn up and didn't plan on buying more. I believe I'm lucky enough to have H110 on the shelf at my local cabelas.

 

[dellet]

The trick with CFE BLK is to compress it, a lot. It’s pretty hard to get an over pressure load before you run out of case capacity, but use common sense.

You can get enough, 14+ grains under a 240 SMK at 2.260” for better than 1400 fps. In an 10” barrel. Even a Berger 230 OTM. If this powder won’t cycle your AR without a suppressor it’s the gun.

Heavy supers are another place it can work, but you won’t get the velocity of 1680 or H110/296.

That said, it can be accurate, but it’s a poor choice in my opinion. 10% more powder to get 10% less velocity only to get more gas, smoke, noise and carbon. It does work well in some other cartridges.

Subs work much better with long heavy bullets no matter what the powder. Load density below 80% just leads to high spreads. Pistol powders like #9 and sadly my favorite that has been discontinued, N105 are good example of clean, quiet and consistent.

I wrote this up when CFEBLK first came out. What’s interesting is that many of the hot shot utoobers were praising it at the same time. 9 years later, people are finally reporting the same.

CFE 300 BLK first thoughts update 1/28/17 » 300BlkTalk

 

[SkullyDogPDW]

The trick with CFE BLK is to compress it, a lot. It’s pretty hard to get an over pressure load before you run out of case capacity, but use common sense.

You can get enough, 14+ grains under a 240 SMK at 2.260” for better than 1400 fps. In an 10” barrel. Even a Berger 230 OTM. If this powder won’t cycle your AR without a suppressor it’s the gun.

Heavy supers are another place it can work, but you won’t get the velocity of 1680 or H110/296.

That said, it can be accurate, but it’s a poor choice in my opinion. 10% more powder to get 10% less velocity only to get more gas, smoke, noise and carbon. It does work well in some other cartridges.

Subs work much better with long heavy bullets no matter what the powder. Load density below 80% just leads to high spreads. Pistol powders like #9 and sadly my favorite that has been discontinued, N105 are good example of clean, quiet and consistent.

I wrote this up when CFEBLK first came out. What’s interesting is that many of the hot shot utoobers were praising it at the same time. 9 years later, people are finally reporting the same.

CFE 300 BLK first thoughts update 1/28/17 » 300BlkTalk

You got that right... The first time I used it, my ES was over 175 FPS. I sure I'm glad I only bought a pound of it.

 

[SkullyDogPDW]

300 Blackout is a silly little cartridge defies logic, and has its own set of rules that constantly shift.

Normally starting low and working up a load is because of safety issues with pressure. With sub sonic or highly reduced loads the danger of sticking one in the barrel or an unstable bullet causing a baffle strike is a bigger concern.

Then you throw a load combo like a 220 cast or plated bullet and a powder like #9, and rules change again.

It will likely be a short stubby bullet that will require a shorter COAL than most data you will find. So unless the manufacturer provides that, you need to find where’s it will hit the lands. It’s highly unlikely that you can load it to magazine length. Maybe your 2.150” is a good number, maybe not.

Because of the shorter seating depth, you have reduced case capacity. This will drive pressure and velocity up. Pressure is the red flag word.

With published data, predicted velocity will be from a 16” barrel, yours at 10.5 will lose 100 fps. The loss of velocity and fear of basically a squib load generally has people going to near max load and working down.

In this combination, that’s the wrong answer.

Most Blackout data for heavy bullets does not go past 1100 fps, instead of a pressure point. This is deceiving.

Hornady, one of the few that list that combination of weight and powder has a max load of 9 grains @ 1300 fps. That is a max pressure load. Not a subsonic max.

Because of all that. This is a combo that is best approached starting somewhat low. If 7.5 grains will exit a 16” barrel, it will certainly exit a 10.5”.

You really want to compare seated depth of the bullet in the data, and the one you are using. Not a big dea, just should be done. Remember that the bullets in the data, all have boat tails, you’re bullet will likely be flatbase, I am not familiar with it, that again takes case capacity and raises peak pressure.

As an example, in an 8” barrel 8.2 grains under a 190 Nosler CC, is 1020 fps. Same rifle, a 220 ELD is roughly 100 fps faster with 7.9 grains. The seated depth, bullet weight and profile cause that much more pressure/velocity by a much more efficient burn of the powder.

I would probably start around 8 grains, and watch the primer close for flattening even at that charge weight. 7.7 might not be a bad idea.

Make sure you see a bullet impact or check the barrel since you don’t have a chronograph.

Better to push a bullet out the barrel with a stick, than pull a bolt out of your face.

On a side note, you may not get that load to cycle without the added back pressure of the suppressor. If it at least cycles, the suppressor should do the rest when it’s attached.

Stay safe and ask questions if you have them. #9 is one of the few powders that will operate in the 40-55,000 psi range even as a sub.

"300 Blackout is a silly little cartridge defies logic, and has its own set of rules that constantly shift."

You sure got that right. I've been reloading on auto pilot for 40 years.... 300 Blackout made me take the stick again. There is a true science to it, and it made reloading fun again.

 

[WV Hitman]

I've been doing the .300 Whisper, aka Blackout for over 40 yrs. invented by my good friend JD Jones of SSK Industries. I did bullet testing for him & Lehigh Defense. I found thru this testing the best bullets for subsonic use are Sierra 220 gr. round nose & Lehigh 186 gr. Controlled Fracturing (has a .17 ca. bullet in the nose around pedals that come off when hitting game). I've taken over 100 deer, many coyotes, 4 turkeys, hundreds of groundhogs with these 2 bullets. I get DRT results about 95% of the time including a doe at 270 yds. & a heavy 8 pt. buck at 240 yds. in heavy rain & wind.
The Lehigh bullet is so good a "certain govt. agency" bought 200,000 at $7 a piece. The Sierra bullet gives the same results & is much cheaper.
I've used only WW296 powder all these years with excellent results. When I started JD told me to load multiple rounds with different loads starting heavy. Once a round was "quiet", thats the subsonic load. My whisper is BB gun quiet with my load that has never been chronoed all these years with all these kills.
Believe me I tried many other bullets at subsonic velocities on my massive amt. of crop damage deer. None have worked as good as these 2. I've never tried any of the really new sub bullets because I think it's hard to beat perfection.

 

[GotRDid]

I’m looking forward to working with these two Hornady Sub-X bullets in 190 and 175 gr and a lb of Trail Boss gifted to me.
A Thermal is on the horizon and the Coyotes that have moved in on my hunting lease are becoming a nuisance.

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

I’m looking forward to working with these two Hornady Sub-X bullets in 190 and 175 gr and a lb of Trail Boss gifted to me.
A Thermal is on the horizon and the Coyotes that have moved in on my hunting lease are becoming a nuisance.

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Give'em hell