.30 Wolf Pup HBR case initial testing

[AlNyhus]

From lt.to rt.- Lapua 6BR case; Lapua 6BR case necked to .30; neck turned case ready to fire; fireformed .30 Wolf Pup HBR case,holding 45.7 of water); loaded .30 Wolf Pup round.

This is a radical new case that myself and Stan Ware,SGR Custom Rifles and a board sponsor) are testing for IBS and NBRSA Hunter Bench Rest,HBR) competition. HBR guns must weigh no more than 10.0 lbs, have a magazine cut in the action, cannot be a 'glue in', 2.25" max. forearm width, are limited to a 6 power scope and the cases used must hold either 45.0 or 45.5 of water, depending on whether you're reading the IBS or NBRSA rulebook.

Most HBR cases are made by pushing the shoulders back on a 308W or 300 Savage case. We are trying the opposite approach...blowing the shoulder of the 30BR foward enough to hold the minimum case capacity for the class.

Target shown was a 5 shot group fired 4-8-06 @ 100 yds. on the Wolf Pup's first outing. Nothing went much over .250 for a 5 shot group, despite 10-18 mph. winds fishtailing from 10:00 to 2:00. Sub .200 groups were routine with several powders and the case appears to every bit as tuneable and well mannered as it's little brother, the 30BR.

Components used are:
- SGR modified Stolle Kodiak RB/LP action
- Kostyshyn 1:17 twist 4 groove barrel
- BIB 118-7 ogive bullets,.3088 pressure ring)
- Leupold 6X Hunter BR scope
- Speedy/McMillan HBR stock

Further testing and tuning will continue at 200 yds. as soon as conditions allow. Wolf Pup #2 will be coming on line shortly, so more data will be collected soon.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[DJD58]

That is a seriously short neck! Just how long is it?

I'm wondering how barrel life will be, I know the 30 BR has very long barrel life so will this version be at least as good as a PPC?

Also, how easy is it to get the bullet out of concentricity to the case?

 

[jb1000br]

can't chase the lands too far, eh?

JB

 

[AlNyhus]

The neck is .085 long. Concentricity and runout seem to be fine. As far as barrel life, we obviously don't know yet, but I can't imagine any issues there. The case wasn't concieved to be a challenger to the PPC in Group shooting, but as an absolute minimum capacity HBR case using the Lapua 6BR case, blowing the shoulder foward just enough to get to the minimum, while taking a fresh approach to conventional thinking on neck length, bullet seating depths, throat length, etc. I've allready learned a bunch from this little case on just my first trip to the range. -Al

 

[AlNyhus]

Actually Jason...we can. Not all is as it seems in the picture. -Al

 

[jb1000br]

Actually Jason...we can. Not all is as it seems in the picture. -Al

Care to elaborate a bit?

JB

 

[DJD58]

It is really interesting.
More questions: Is the throat bullet shape specific? or can you go from a BIB 7 ogive to a 10 on the same jacket length?
Is there enough bullet in the neck for this?

Does the bullet seem to be able to self center some in the short neck?
It seems that it would be nice to have a cartridge design that would allow it to fix any concentricity misalignments by chambering the round.

 

[AlNyhus]

Care to elaborate a bit?

Sure, Jason. We set the throat up to position the base of the bullet well below the neck/shoulder junction.

Is the throat bullet shape specific? or can you go from a BIB 7 ogive to a 10 on the same jacket length?

The throat allows using either 7 or 10 ogive bullets.

Does the bullet seem to be able to self center some in the short neck?

I really don't know at this point, but I haven't tried to check it out. We set these things up with a pretty good amount of 'jam', which I believe mitigates any small bullet runout issues, not just with this case but any cartridge. The key is that the chamber and the throat have to be perfect, ...or at least as close to perfect as you can get it. Stan takes whatever time is needed to achieve minimum chamber/throat runout and it pays dividends, IMO. Like most of our Benchrest chambers, Stan throats in a seperate operation, which allows him to match the freebore diameter to the specific bullets we're going to be using as well as throat lengths and angles that we've found to work well.

We're still tinkerin'....

 

[RGRobinett]

Al, ain't ya got no learnin'? "THAT'LL NEVER WORK!" R.G.

 

[AlNyhus]

Al, ain't ya got no learnin'? "THAT'LL NEVER WORK!" R.G.

'Yer killin' me here, Randy! :lol:

 

[DJD58]

I see, if you throat short enough for the base to be in the case then you can use any bullet and be able to chase the lands too.
I guess you would need to be very careful about a donut, but if you turn the neck far enough you shouldn't have much problem.

It will be easier to turn enough when turning on the straight neck too.

Definitely an interesting idea. So many things we do are still derived from field guns, but why use them on a competition gun other than custom, or thinking "that'll never work".
I want to hear more about your progress.

 

[RGRobinett]

I believe that by JUMPING "out of the box", Al and Stan may just be onto something - the initial results are sure difficult to argue against . . well, except for the UGLY!

Sans donut, and despite the pressure-ring being below the neck/shoulder junction and/or the sized portion of the neck,
why wouldn't it work - just because it's never been tried?

When Al first told me about it, he got my immediate, "THAT'LL NEVER WORK" . . . which, coming from me, provided evidence that I wished I'd thought of it! Like another individual asked Al, "how much neck do you need?" It appears that we may soon find out! R.G.

 

[17VLD]

Great work Al!!!
I think the name is cool, but are'nt wolf pups cute?

TTFN
Matt

 

[Wild_Bill]

Awsome looking case it is great to see someone trying diferent approaches to the same question of how to shoot the smallest group or highest score reliably and repeatably. I also believe that if you have a verry close fitting throat and jam the bullets they have to reduce the chance of runout. Well done.

Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[AlNyhus]

I think the name is cool, but are'nt wolf pups cute?

Hi Matt. Good to hear from you. Yep, you're right. Wolf pups are cute, but this 'Wolf Pup' is kinda'...errr...well...it's cute to it's parents, if you know what I mean! Actually, once you get past the original 'weirdness' of the case, it kinda' grows on 'ya. 'Course, so do warts, right? HaHaHa! :lol:

Take care and good shootin' with your small caliber projects. I was going to post this on the Saubier Small Caliber forum also, but those boys would run me off for sure! -Al

 

[AlNyhus]

it is great to see someone trying diferent approaches to the same question of how to shoot the smallest group or highest score reliably and repeatably.

Thanks for the kind words Bill, but the credit for this project really belongs to Stan Ware. Without a master machinist like Stan working with me on this, it never would have gotten past the 'daydream' stage..or as my wife calls it: "Your P&S stage of a project." P&S means "plotting and scheming" and she knows the signs well!

I'll be keeping a close eye out for donuts...I have no idea what to expect, there. Stan and I have done the cases differently for each rifle, so we can get better feedback on this aspect of the case. I've made up a small mandrel that fits the neck i.d. of a fired case very precisely and will use it as a 'go,no-go' guage of sorts to see if we're developing donuts that would rival the local Krispy Kreme.

Anyway, we still need to do a lot of work to make sure it performs well at 200 and 300 yds, keeps it's tune over wide changes in temps. and humidity, case life stays good, etc, etc. The only way to tell about this stuff is to shoot the beejeezus out of it every chance we can to make sure it performs when it counts. -Al

 

[chrisj]

I always thought that long necked cases were overrated....bu this is pretty extreme! If it keeps shooting groups like that...can't argue with short necks.

Chris

 

[17VLD]

Al, I think the guys at Saubier would have loved seeing
what guys on the "cutting edge" are doing.After all you can only take so much of 17AH vs 17MV.LOL
Variety is the spice of life.Keep up the good work Al!
TTFN
Matt

 

[Aussie_bob]

Al,
While you are playing why not grab a few 6.5X47 cases and neck them out to 30cal should be close to the size you you are at now with some neck.

 

[AlNyhus]

Aussie Bob: The Lapua 6.5X47 cases promise to be very good for a HBR case. Expanded to .30, they will most likely hold approx. 48.0-49.0 of water, which is a bit bigger than the 30 WareWolf cartridge I now shoot and make from the Lapua 308W case. With the 118-125 bullets, this case capacity works well with powders in the N135 burn rate. We'll also be able to use it as the parent case for many of the HBR chambers currently in use, giving many of us the chance to try a small primer/flash hole 'big HBR case' w/o using the small primer Rem URBR 308 cases. The Rem. URBR 308BR cases work great when used with a properly dimensioned reamer, but the Lapua 308W cases are around .005 bigger on the back end than the Rem. brass.

A minimum capacity case like the Wolf Pup should,hopefully) allow us to use faster powders like H4198 and N130 which have been so successful in the 30BR, which has about 10% less case capacity that the Wolf Pup.

Good shootin'. -Al