30-06AI & Modern High BC Bullets

[ThunderDownUnder]

This data is for those shooters who may be considering the 30-06AI as an alternative to the 284W and Shehane for F-Class competition. It is a suitable replace for the 284W as the case fits a 308 bolt head and has a similar powder capacity. Its pretty much the same as the 280AI except for 30 cal and I wanted to try the big 30 cal bullets.

I finally tired of expanded case heads and donut removal from the Lapua 6.5x284W necked up for 7mm brass. I soon found the 284W brass needed to be shot under, (sometimes well under) 2900fps to have a case life longer than 5 shots when using 180gr target bullets. The 284W when shot in the 2800 to 2850fps range is very accurate and reliable but I wanted to try the 30-06AI to see how it compared.

I had a spare 32" Tru-Flite barrel in 30cal, 10T and decided to chamber it for the Lapua 30-06 brass but in 30-06AI to gain just a little more powder room. I put this barrel on my Barnard Model P action and into my v-blocked Shehane F-Class stock.

Here is a list of 1000 yd wind drift data I have calculated and tested just recently and I will give my hot Shehane 7mm load with 180gr pointed VLDs as a comparison.

Wind Drift Data in 10 MPH Crosswind @ 1000 Yards:

284 Shehane with 180gr pointed VLDs @ 2940 fps = 5.3 moa

30-06AI with 215gr pointed hybrids @ 2800 fps = 5.2 moa

30-06AI with 200gr pointed hybrids @ 2915 fps = 5.5 moa

After firing the 30-06AI cases for 4 firings I have found the brass to be excellent with tight primer pockets and no signs of case head expansion being a problem when fired with the heavy Berger target bullets.

I had shocking accuracy with this rifle initially and thought that while the ballistics were exceptional the accuracy was hopeless. I shot scattered groups and single groups that looked like two groups and was pretty concerned that I had lost the plot. Checked the stock and action screws, gave the scope the once over and found noting wrong. I then shot it for the first time in an open prize meet and performed really badly and did not know why. I got home after the shoot and noticed the scope had moved forward in the rings and the scope level was hard up against the rear scope ring. I had found the problem and tensioned the scope ring screws down with my Warne tension wrench.

Wow, accuracy really improves when those 8 screws are tight! I had adjusted for cant and setting my level weeks earlier and only used the allen key like tool with light tension to hold it in place once set. Seems I forgot to tension the screws, I wont forget that lesson in a hurry!

Accuracy is really good with both the 200 and 215gr hybrids and I'm back into 0.25 moa at 100 yard groups. For what its worth if you are considering going to a 30 cal for F-Class then the 30-06AI offers 300WSM like performance from a case that fits a 308 bolt head. Its ballistics compare favorably to a hot 7mm Shehane and the barrel life should be excellent. Dont forget to check your scope rings when testing

Ian

 

[wboggs]

What powder and OAL cartridge length are you using? I have a standard '06 and get about 2650 using H4350 and 215 hybrids in a 30" barrel. 2800 from your AI and 2" longer barrel looks like mine may be loaded a bit lighter than yours.
I have thought for a while that it may have a lot of potential.
Thanks

 

[Quickoz]

That's very interesting. What sort of waterline does it hold?

It sure is a good alternative to a 7mm.

 

[Drop Port]

What powder and OAL cartridge length are you using? I have a standard '06 and get about 2650 using H4350 and 215 hybrids in a 30" barrel. 2800 from your AI and 2" longer barrel looks like mine may be loaded a bit lighter than yours.
I have thought for a while that it may have a lot of potential.
Thanks

R-22 should give you about another 100 fps maybe even a little more.

 

[Sling]

Check out the 30 Gibbs. It it about max on the 06 case.

 

[mattri]

Very, very interesting.

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

What powder and OAL cartridge length are you using? I have a standard '06 and get about 2650 using H4350 and 215 hybrids in a 30" barrel. 2800 from your AI and 2" longer barrel looks like mine may be loaded a bit lighter than yours.
I have thought for a while that it may have a lot of potential.
Thanks

My chamber is throated long for the heavy Bergers and gives me a CBTO, (case base to ogive) of 2.725" for both the 200 and 215gr hybrid bullets using a Hornady comparator. I'm using AR2209, (H4350) powder with CCI BR primers and Lapua brass.

I'm jumping the 215gr bullets 30 thou and the 200gr bullets 15 thou. Loads for both bullets are 57.5gr of AR2209 with the 200gr for 2915 fps and 56.5gr of the same powder for 2800 fps with the 215 grain bullets. Take usual precautions going up to this load as its not at max for me but might be in different chambers with shorter throats.

I have a custom Match PT&G reamer and a Standard reamer from Dave Manson, both in no-neck turn 30-06AI. Both reamers are almost identical and I have chambers cut from both and prefer the Standard Manson reamer in 30-06AI as it has 0.001" larger neck diameter. I have a seperate throating reamer to take the throat out to the best seating depth for the bullet. It seems the Berger 200 and 215gr hybrid bullets like the same chamber throat so its a good setup as these bullets are as heavy as I want to go with the 30-06AI.

Only other thing I can say is that I got higher velocity using AR2213SC, (H4831) with the 200gr bullets launching at just over 2930 fps. I got better accuracy with the AR2209 so thats what I have gone with, but it might be worth testing further in other guns.

Ian

 

[wboggs]

Your throat is longer than mine which is a Serengeti Reamer from PT&G. My load is 53gr H4350, giving the 2650. Accuracy is less than 1/2MOA with the 215 seated 0.03 off. Tried R17 and H4831 and neither was as accurate as the H4350. It looks like your extra velocity comes from your ability to burn a little more powder and the extra 2" of barrel length. Interesting that both of us came up with a similar solution using the excellent 215 Hybrid in the .30-06.
I have been unable to get H4350 for some months so most of my testing is on hold.

 

[Toolbreaker]

Very, very interesting.

Sure is . Thanks for posting this, TDU. A 30-06 AI is my next build, with intentions of shooting the heavier weights. Wboggs, what kind of velocity & ES were you getting with RL17 and the 215 Hybrids?

 

[expiper]

you guys should try the 30-07 ,,,it uses 30-06 brass (which is available from Lapua !!!) and is a 280 AI necked up to 30 cal,,,,brass is commonly avialable and 280 AI dies ( Redding type S ) can be modified to work (saving $$$ for custom dies) ,,,,it is very similar to 30 Gibbs and EZ to do ,,,talk to Kiff about reamer print #34851,,,( FB needs adj for 230's) works with 200 pluss bullets and 4350/Rx 17 ...Roger

I have been shooting this for several years ,,its VERY similar to 300 WSM...

 

[wboggs]

Toolbreaker My accuracy with the R17 was so bad it looked like I shot the target with buckshot.
I tried it because G Salazar suggested it might provide a high velocity. But, after seeing the accuracy of H4350 and NMRP I didn't even check velocity. MRP has promise but it isn't easy to get either. In my testing so far H4350 seems to be a winner. You will be able to get an easy 2700-2800 with a long barrel in you AI version. Only problem is finding the H4350 and that seems to be a major concern everywhere in the US.

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

Your throat is longer than mine which is a Serengeti Reamer from PT&G. My load is 53gr H4350, giving the 2650. Accuracy is less than 1/2MOA with the 215 seated 0.03 off. Tried R17 and H4831 and neither was as accurate as the H4350. It looks like your extra velocity comes from your ability to burn a little more powder and the extra 2" of barrel length. Interesting that both of us came up with a similar solution using the excellent 215 Hybrid in the .30-06.
I have been unable to get H4350 for some months so most of my testing is on hold.

It seems I'm running 3gr more powder than you as well as the 2" longer barrel. I think if you were to get hold of a throating reamer with the right leade angle and lengthened your throat so the bullet could seat out past the donut zone then you would be able to safely increase the load and velocity. I'm using a Redding FLS die and Wilson dies for neck sizing and bullet seating.

The case design of the AI should prohibit donuts regardless of where you seat the bullet, its one of the advantages of this case. I wanted 284 Shehane accuracy and ballistics without all the brass issues associated with the necked up Lapua brass. I also wanted long barrel life and the rifle to be my go to calibre for all ranges. I have specialist short and long range F-Class rifles but wanted it all in one especially for club competitions. A rifle to take heavy use without compromising accuracy and so far its looking good.

At the moment my heavy barrel (parallel 1.25") is in with the gunsmith getting a barrel tuner fitted. I bought the tuner when I was having dramas caused by loose scope rings but have decided to fit it now just to see what it can do for group shaping. The tuner is another experiment as while I had them on F T/R barrels I have never used one before on a open rifle. The PT&G Serengati reamer is near identical to both my reamers and with a longer throat should give you a velocity increase if thats what you want?

I thought of using a 280AI necked up as suggested on this thread but it doesn't offer any advantage over the 30-06AI and I can get Lapau brass for the 30-06. The Lapua 30-06 brass forms beautifully and is showing zero pressure signs. No more donuts and loose primers which were the trademark of my 284 Shehane when driven at around 2900+ fps. There is one negative with the 30-06AI and using heavy bullets and that is it generates more recoil than the 7mm, 180 grainers. If you dont mind a bit more recoil then the 30-06AI delivers with accuracy and ballistics.


Ian

 

[expiper]

HI Thunder,,,,just a side note,,,,if you look at the reamer drawing for the 30-07 AIMO,,,you will see that it uses 30-06 brass,,,the shoulder is moved .150 foreward to the same as 280 AI,,which is wayy more capacity than just a 30-06 AI,,,that is why I used the 280 AI as the datum ,,,,the neck is shortend like a Dasher is to a 6mm BR...I didnt want others to be confused by your comment ,,,,it holds ~ 5 gr more than a 30-06 AI....it is very similar to a 30 Gibbs.....it is just about the largest casen cap. that can be had with a .308 bolt face...I shoot lots of 185 class bullets with good results....Roger

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

HI Thunder,,,,just a side note,,,,if you look at the reamer drawing for the 30-07 AIMO,,,you will see that it uses 30-06 brass,,,the shoulder is moved .150 foreward to the same as 280 AI,,which is wayy more capacity than just a 30-06 AI,,,that is why I used the 280 AI as the datum ,,,,the neck is shortend like a Dasher is to a 6mm BR...I didnt want others to be confused by your comment ,,,,it holds ~ 5 gr more than a 30-06 AI....it is very similar to a 30 Gibbs.....it is just about the largest casen cap. that can be had with a .308 bolt face...I shoot lots of 185 class bullets with good results....Roger

Good point expiper and thanks for correcting my statement. Your 30-07 looks very good indeed and I didn't consider shortening the neck of lapua brass to gain the extra capacity. I'm guessing you might be able to launch the 215gr hybrids at 2800 to 2850fps? Have you any data on using it with the heavy Bergers?

I'm happy with using the 30-06AI and the accuracy, velocity and BC of the 215gr hybrids gave me the ballistics to better my Shehane. It was an experiment that turned out better than expected and I'm guessing you are just as pleased with your 30-07!

Ian

 

[expiper]

Hi Ian,,,I have only shot a few 210's in it (just for load development) It is a 10 twist so it will shoot the biggies,,but the ballistic tables tell me that the 185 moving faster than the 210-230's give less drift ,,,,check it out,,,I have had great results with Berger and Lapua 185's......my FB is only .110 because of this ,,,I could deepen it ,,,but am doing so well with 185's I dont wana change,,,,look at my reamer drawing and see what you think of it,,,,Roger

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

Hi Roger, your reamer and idea for a 30-07 is pretty darn good! Its probably like you say, the biggest capacity case for a 30 cal off a 308 bolt face. It would be nice to know how it would shape up in terms of pressure to shooting the heavies at velocities over what I'm shooting them at in the 30-06AI. We need some one with one of these chambers with a long throat to provide some data for us.

I checked on the wind drift for your 185gr hybrids in a 10 MPH crosswind at 1000 yards and got the following results. I also have assumed all bullets to be pointed and added an additional 5% onto the BC values Berger gives them. I'm using standard atmospherics for calcs.

30-06AI, 215gr hybrids @ 2800 fps gives 5.2 moa wind drift at 1000yds

30-07AI, 185gr hybrids @ 3300fps gives 5.3 moa wind drift at 1000yds

The 30-07AI needs to launch the 185gr hybrids at 3350fps to better the 215gr hybrids launched at 2800fps!

How fast are you launching your 185gr hybrids? They are a very good bullet and the other benefit using these is reduced recoil when compared to the 215s. Having said all that, maybe you should consider a longer throat for your next barrel and try the 215gr bullets! Might even reduce barrel wear by quite a margin?

Ian

 

[Steve Blair]

The 30-07AI needs to launch the 185gr hybrids at 3350fps to better the 215gr hybrids launched at 2800fps!

[br]
If you are looking for the best possible ballistics in caliber .30, you should be shooting 230 Hybrids. No amount of justification will change the ballistic advantage this bullet has over those previously mentioned. Using the same cartridge, and loading to equal pressure, the highest B.C. bullet will always produce the least wind deflection. Attached is a chart that replicates my standard .300 WSM F-Class match load. I can run the 230's much faster, close to 3000 fps, but cannot reliably manage the recoil at that velocity. My first Norma case lot has been fired seven times and is still serviceable. None of the cartridges mentioned are equivalent to .300 WSM capacity at 79.9 grains H2O in my Norma cases. Additionally, .300 WSM has a long track record for reliable accuracy and tuning ease. The main differences are that it uses a magnum bolt face and is shorter overall with 230's seated to an appropriate length. [br]
I'm not saying that any of the cartridges above would not be usable or competitive but saying that they are equivalent to .300 WSM is not supportable.

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

Point taken Steve!

My long range 30cal is a 300WM and it launches 230gr hybrids and the ballistics (wind drift) is superior to the 215gr hybrids launched from the 30-06AI. Higher BC with higher velocity equals less wind drift, its a no-brainer.

I wanted a case I could use on my 308 bolt face and really like the 30-06AI shooting the 200s and 215gr bullets. I could do a 300WSM but decided to do something different and really just wanted a replacement for my Shehane that would not burn barrels like a SAUM. Lots of my buddies shoot the 300WSM and they are an excellent choice.

Regardless of ballistic advantage you still get beaten by a shooter with an accurate 6 or 6.5 mm on occasions, accuracy and wind reading are still a big part of this sport! The 7mm crowd shooting the 180gr hybrids are still the biggest percentage of F-Open shooters and with good reason, but the 30 cals with the new (new-ish) bullets are becoming popular.

I'm not saying the 30-06AI is the best choice for everybody, all I'm doing is sharing some info on an experiment I tried, that worked out better than I ever expected it to.

Ian

 

[Steve Blair]

I've thought several times about a straight .30-'06 F-Open rifle shooting 230 Hybrids for our 600 yard matches. At 22 pounds and ~2700 fps, recoil would be mild and barrel life should be excellent. It would still have excellent ballistics and would be a viable LR backup should my .300 WSM or .284 Shehane be unavailable for some reason. It would take advantage of high quality Lapua brass and leverage my inventory of 230's. I really need to order a reamer for it.

 

[Jeffvn]

Ian

I've been using a 30-06AI for roughly 6 months as my go-to steel varmint match rifle (targets out to 950 yards). I'm currently running the 185 Juggernauts @ 2,900+ and its a true hammer.

This weekend I start doing load development w/ Berger 210 VLDs and 215 Hybreds, plus Hornady 208 AMAX.

Although I had very good results w/ H4350 and H 4831SC (and use those two powders for all my fire forming loads - accurate enough to use in matches), I am currently using IMR 7828 SSC as my powder of choice for this cartridge. So far it has not been temp sensitive (and in the LAs Vegas Desert that can be a problem), and it gives me higher velocities at the same level of accuracy as the H4350 and the H4831SC. If you want a bit more speed it may be worth your while to give it a try.

Jeffvn