3 or 5 shot groups?
- Thread starter sgreen3
- Start date
James,,,I take even further,,,,if the first two (Im talking target rifle) dont touch and the third one makes it even bigger ,,,,I look elsewere,,,powder charge or type ,,or seating depth,,,,,even with a deer rifle the first two may be an inch apart and if the third one doesnt hurt it too much then you may be there ,,,,you cant expect a factory bbl or gun to print them like a cu$tom,,,I worry more about vertical ,,most of the horizontal is wind,(in my case,haha),,,,Roger
GSPV
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
Maybe. But the experience forced by climbing to the top or even just participating consistently in a sport where everyone is ready to spend extensive amounts of time and money to excel, is going to cross over to the factory rifle. Many of us shoot in formats where we compete very seriously with factory rifles. The shooters that consistently place with the customs are the same people that place consistently with the factory rifles.Lazer said:
Thanks Lh, I don't want to learn, that's why iv spent thousands on rifles and pulled a trigger close to 3000 times this year trying to learn. Just because your discipline/ experience in shooting is different than mine doesn't mean you need to keep belittling me. My post are based on my shooting experience I'm not trying to be an a-hole, as some belive. I have not said anything negative or condescending to anyone unless they said something negative to me.
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
Lazer said:
Look on the NBRSA web site the Precision Rifleman magazine posts match results all year long. http://www.nbrsa.org
Or on the IBS site http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/long_range/_longrangeindex.php
Occasionally someone shoots a factory rifle in (formal) competition. They are listed in the match summary.
A lot of local clubs have factory class events.
Some of the disconnect between guys posting on this thread maybe the difference in equipment and expectations. The method a guy uses to find a load for his varmint rifle from a bipod maybe different than the guy finding a load for his BR comp gun.
The thing is IMO a larger portion of guys that post regularly on this site are or have been involved in some type of (formal) competition
Lazer said:
I've heard enough. A rarely used (and rarely needed before snipershide imploded) but useful option:
Profile-Account Settings-Modify Profile-Edit Ignore List-"fill in the blank"
My last post on this subject,
Whether it be a factory varmint rifle or a custom built benchrest rifle I load develop the same for either one. What works in one discipline will also work in the other. I strive for the best accuracy the rifle is capable of giving. Once I find that accuracy the rest is up to me to make the rifle perform at its best.
It may sound crazy but the most consistent rifle I have ever owned for shooting short range was a winchester HV chambered in a 243. This was the ones when winchester used the semi custom barrels and a H&S precision stock. The smallest group I have ever shot also was from this rifle. I regret today ever getting rid of it but that's water under the bridge.
Lazer you may have your own way of doing it and that's fine we all do. What works for you is all that matters. Many here are veteran competition shooters and even champions. They have there way of how they do things in there shop as well. This board has many years of knowledge and experience, take note of those and it's ok to ask questions and even if it makes you look like a fool. Lord knows I did today in the lab radar thread but I learned something and if that's what it takes to learn so be it.
Gun setup and prep at handling is just as big as a key factor in accuracy as load developing. Learn what a rifle likes, it may like cheek pressure it may not, it may like a slight Palm pressure and it may not or it may like free recoil or held tight. They all have there likes and dislikes just as well as powders and primers.
Bottom line be safe and have fun.
Whether it be a factory varmint rifle or a custom built benchrest rifle I load develop the same for either one. What works in one discipline will also work in the other. I strive for the best accuracy the rifle is capable of giving. Once I find that accuracy the rest is up to me to make the rifle perform at its best.
It may sound crazy but the most consistent rifle I have ever owned for shooting short range was a winchester HV chambered in a 243. This was the ones when winchester used the semi custom barrels and a H&S precision stock. The smallest group I have ever shot also was from this rifle. I regret today ever getting rid of it but that's water under the bridge.
Lazer you may have your own way of doing it and that's fine we all do. What works for you is all that matters. Many here are veteran competition shooters and even champions. They have there way of how they do things in there shop as well. This board has many years of knowledge and experience, take note of those and it's ok to ask questions and even if it makes you look like a fool. Lord knows I did today in the lab radar thread but I learned something and if that's what it takes to learn so be it.
Gun setup and prep at handling is just as big as a key factor in accuracy as load developing. Learn what a rifle likes, it may like cheek pressure it may not, it may like a slight Palm pressure and it may not or it may like free recoil or held tight. They all have there likes and dislikes just as well as powders and primers.
Bottom line be safe and have fun.
Thanks James a very informative post! I'm not reinventing the wheel with"my way" I'm just asking questions and talking from my experience whitch I can back up with targets. Sorry I don't do whatever tony says, I'm not a follower. The problem here is bridging the gap between br competition shooters and guys who take hunting rifles and string every last bit of acurracy out of them. That's where the problem lies in this discussion.
Without getting into the whole three or five shot debate, just my .02 but at some point my shot string has to represent the amount of shots I will be take during competition. I have in the past found an occasional flyer that didn't show up with lesser shots during load development and was able to correct it.
I have personally found that competing even occasionally in the type or discipline of shooting you do will absolutely help improve your shooting. Just talking and listening to what others are doing is invaluable. BUT I also go by listen, learn and confirm. I've had three reputable BR competitors diagnose a load issue I had with three different definitive solutions all of which were wrong. So I always take a scientific approach and confirm results (cause and effect) for myself.
I have in the past competed in several disciplines of shooting and when rifles are concerned, they can be as different as apples and oranges. Not to offend anyone, just my .02 but I have seen some 1K BR shooters that will kick my but day in and day out every day, but throw them in a different discipline (that they don't shoot or have experience in) and things (often) change rapidly.
There are things and tricks that can be learned from various disciplines not all will apply and not all are from competitors. When it comes to shear accuracy I know the group I rely on, when the wind flags are taken away my mentors change.
My load development is flexible and I've cut corners in the past, causing me to go back and diagnose component by component. I've also chased things on limited time and an educated hunch that worked out. It all depends on what level of completion or accuracy you are looking for to get the job done in your discipline.
I have personally found that competing even occasionally in the type or discipline of shooting you do will absolutely help improve your shooting. Just talking and listening to what others are doing is invaluable. BUT I also go by listen, learn and confirm. I've had three reputable BR competitors diagnose a load issue I had with three different definitive solutions all of which were wrong. So I always take a scientific approach and confirm results (cause and effect) for myself.
I have in the past competed in several disciplines of shooting and when rifles are concerned, they can be as different as apples and oranges. Not to offend anyone, just my .02 but I have seen some 1K BR shooters that will kick my but day in and day out every day, but throw them in a different discipline (that they don't shoot or have experience in) and things (often) change rapidly.
There are things and tricks that can be learned from various disciplines not all will apply and not all are from competitors. When it comes to shear accuracy I know the group I rely on, when the wind flags are taken away my mentors change.
My load development is flexible and I've cut corners in the past, causing me to go back and diagnose component by component. I've also chased things on limited time and an educated hunch that worked out. It all depends on what level of completion or accuracy you are looking for to get the job done in your discipline.
GSPV
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
I was referring to the UBR score format. http://ultimatebenchrest.com .Lazer said:
It is somewhat regional, but there are some tough shooters.
I've posted a target below. Buy some and shoot under match conditions. You will find it to be non-trivial.
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