284 Winchester, your favorite target load

[DennisH]

Specs below:

McGowen 30"-9 twist-Savage Bull-stainless matte barrel
NightForce BenchRest, 12x42, NP2DD
Berger 180 HYBYRDS
Winchester Brass
Federal 210 primers

My ES (extreme spread) was 26.32, My SD (standard deviation) was 10.53, avg velocity was 2,725.02 fps.

We practiced yesterday @ 600, wind was pretty wild coming from every direction, mirage was the same.

I wasn't too happy with the rifles performance @ 600, I thought I would have shot better. I know I would have with my 308 and BRX, FYI

Looking for answers, Dennis

 

[Steve Blair]

Dennis, [br]
When I use Winchester brass, I sort by case wall thickness using an Audette type tool made by Neco. I only use brass that has .002" or less TIR measured about .75" from the case head. That culls ~45% of the brass. Some have as much as .012" TIR. Neck problems, flash holes and other factors account for ~5% more. I accept that 50% will be culled. At the price, it is still not a bad way to go. Also watch the headspace. I had one lot of Win 6mm Rem brass that had ~.037" headspace length variance. Some would not chamber without sizing. [br]
I still measure a 10% sample population from Lapua 6.5-.284 lots that I buy but have not found any over .002" in the last two lots. [br]
You still seem a little low in velocity. I would expect to see, as others mentioned, a node around 2850 that is near full pressure and gives good accuracy. It should tighten up your ES, too. [br]
Are you checking bullet runout on loaded rounds? I keep mine under .002" TIR. With 4831 SC, I maintain powder weight ±.02 grain, the range covered by one kernel. It may not be necessary to hold it that tight but try to weigh as closely as possible. All these factors are cumulative and contribute to low ES/SD. [br]
I have some .308 loads that do very well with Fed 210M primers but the .284 seems to work better with Russian LR. Obviously, that varies considerably from rifle to rifle.

 

[DennisH]

Steve, Thanks for the reply.

I will try and find the Russian LR primers.

I have Lapua brass and will prep 70 cases this week.

Dennis

 

[KT]

I use the Win brass as well. However you must do the prep work to the brass. Which includes discarding quite a few of them. After the prep work, they work quite well. I'm up to 4 firings on one lot of 100 pieces. I should get one or maybe two more firings on them. After all my win brass is shot out, I will more than likely move to Lapua or Norma. Mostly because no one has Win brass in stock.

The biggest thing with the Win brass is that you need to neck turn it. Like steve said it's very inconsistant.

Keep working your way up in powder charge and you should find that higher node.

KT

 

[flatlander]

Guys - on the 4831SC - I tried SC in the 1st 284 bbl I chambered several years ago, and found that I could get better accuracy & higher velocity with plain old H4831. Just bought 8lb jugs of H4831SC & IMR7828SSC to experiment with in a 28" Bartlein 5R DTA contour that I did for my DTA SRS, and have pretty much the same impression - again.

I normally load 54.5grs of H4831 with 180s, whether they're VLDs or Hybrids, for 2817fps. Tested 55.5 of SC and got 2743fps, while 56grs of 7828SSC gave 2756fps. All were loaded with HBN coated 180 Hybrids in new prepped WW cases with Wolf (Russian) LRMs. At 600yds, H4831 still produced smaller groups than either of the other powders. The DTA bolt doesn't have real tight clearance in the firing pin dia/FP hole in the boltface, so I'm getting some primer flow at these load levels, even with the very tough Wolf/Tula primers. But the 4831/4831SC load comparo was also tested in a LA M700 with a PTG custom bolt, and in a BAT 3LL - both with 30" bbls - and results were basically the same. Thing is, if I get any primer flow with the Wolf primers, the WW brass primer pockets typically get loose after one firing. Am I missing something here?

Have been very tempted to order a Shehane reamer and use it on one of these 284 bbls, but am not all that sure it'd be worth the expense of buying semi-custom dies. Opinions?

 

[KT]

One suggestion or opinion.

There is a big freebore requirement difference between the VLD's and Hybrids. Some people may disagree however this is what I have seen.

If you want to shoot the Hybrids you need to have the gun chambered especially for them.

If you shoot the VLD's a .188 freebore is pretty much the standard. If you shoot the Hybrids you need to have atleast a .220 freebore. The reason being, is to get the bullet in the proper position in the brass.

I have a buddy with the exact same problem. He is stuck at the 54g range because the bullet is to far down in the brass and it's creating an over pressure problem. He can't reach the 2850 range.

Most people have never been able to get the same velocity as the hybrid using the VLD.

I have had the best results using CCI BR2 primers

Everyone's gun is a bit different. However I'm not sure why you can't reach the 2800 fps mark using that much 4831sc.

With the 4831 and the 4831sc loads, can you hear the powder moving inside or are the loads compressed?

KT

 

[arizonajake]

Straight .284 Win.: 57.0 grains of H4831SC behind Sierra 168 gr. MKs with the bullets seated 0.010" from the rifling, using Winchester brass and Wolf LR primers. Chronographed velocity measured 2945 fps, producing 3-shot groups measuring 1.5 inches at 300 meters from a Winchester M 70 Long Action with a 26" Shilen barrel in light varmint contour.

 

[DennisH]

Several are shooting the 168 smk's vs Berger 180's, next is the 162's A-Max's.

Maybe the key is a lighter bullet to get into the 2,925+ range.

I am going to try pushing the 180's first.

 

[DBailey]

I can guarantee you the answer is not the lighter bullets unless you are better than a world class windreader.

 

[DennisH]

Have been very tempted to order a Shehane reamer and use it on one of these 284 bbls, but am not all that sure it'd be worth the expense of buying semi-custom dies. Opinions?

I thought about the above statement as well and was told it's not worth the expense.

I can guarantee you the answer is not the lighter bullets unless you are better than a world class windreader.

Bailey, you have a very good point!

KT's suggestions are on the table, brass is waiting. I hopefully will get to the 2,925 mark without causing many problems with my rifle.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Sierra 175's are a good bullet to use in the .284. There is not much difference in the wind between that bullet at the 180's. I don't think that there is a enough difference in the bullets to warrant the greater cost of the Bergers in my opinion. Use them both if you like, the Sierra's in club matches and the Bergers at the Nationals and such. If you can get your rifle to shoot both with good competitive loads, I would say that you will find after a season, that there really isn't all that much difference too.

 

[Triggerf16]

I owe you guys a big "Thank You" for this thread. I recently built a .284 Win tube gun (Eliseo RTM stock, Defiance Mutant action, 27" Krieger 1:9 barrel, Jewell trigger, SRT Shadow suppressor. Clay Spencer chambered the barrel, and did his usual superb job. He has built several rifles for me, and I highly recommend his work.

I loaded up some ammo with Berger 180VLDs and H4831SC based on your recommendation for the two nodes at 54.2gr and 56.3gr. I bracketed the higher node with 56.0, 56.3 and 56.5gr. No pressure signs on any of the brass. No chrono data yet, but I will get that soon.

Here are my results at 56.3gr. That is a three-shot group. Prepped and weight-sorted Winchester brass, SAAMI minimum chamber.

Needless to say I'm pretty happy. As my shooting partner remarked, "Load development is over!"

 

[DennisH]

Trigger16, nice group.

I hope and believe I can get 2 more grains in my brass, in fact I am almost positive. Just waiting on the weather to cooperate.

PS: This is what this site is all about, to learn and to help. I know I have solved a lot of issues, plus learned from some of the best shooters in the country. Thanks for your post, it's reassuring.

Dennis

 

[flatlander]

KT - My reamer print shows .175" freebore; aside from the neck dia., it's essentially identical to Robert Whitley's 284 print. Checking seated bullet depth with a jump of .015" for the 180 Hybrid shows that the body/boattail junction is right at the case body/shoulder junction. So, yes, another .013" of freebore would get the bullet a bit farther up out of the case. Would that make enough difference to allow me to hit the 2850 node? - very questionable, IMHO. This is a pretty new barrel, with just under 300rds through it to date.

I've used either moly'd or HBN-coated bullets in all four of the 284 bbls I've chambered with this reamer, and a couple of the older barrels have around 1000rds through them. Perhaps one of these older barrels - which must surely have the throat eroded enough to allow for seating the hybrids farther out - would allow for bumping the charge weight enough to reach 2850.

OTOH, my results with Sierra 175MKs has shown them to shoot exceptionally well with minimal load development/tweaking, especially in a PacNor 3-groove bbl, which shoots them better than any other bullet I've tried, including Berger & JLK 180VLDs, 180 Hybrids, Berger & JLK 168s, etc.. So Froggy's point has validity. Whatever - I'll continue to shoot & enjoy my 284s. My only wish right now is that someone out at CRC at Byers, Co. would step up and start running the 3x600 & 3x1000 any/any LR weekends again, so I'd have a venue where the 284s really shine within reasonable driving distance. There are several 4x600 any/any matches around, but my Dashers & 6.5x47s get the nod for midrange; no sense wasting high-dollar 7mm bullets at 600yds - or maybe that's just the Welsh blood in my veins trying to pinch pennys after spending $$$ building several 284s....

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Looking for what loads you all have found work well in a straight .284 to use as a starting point for some load development.

Rifle is a McMillan Kestros R stock that a buddy colored up for me, Bartlein 87. twist M24 at 26", Rem 700 action accurized by LRI, Calvin Elite trigger, PT&G bolt, Vortex Golden Eagle scope. I've played mostly with a BERGER 180 Hybrid match with 52.8 grains of H4350 in LAPUA brass with a GM210M, loaded .025 off the lands and .002" neck tension. That produces a 2770 fps average and an SD of about 19, but I am NOT what you'd call tickled with the 1 /12 to 2" groups it produces at 300 yards or with that SD! ES on the 284 doesn't really row my boat, either.

I'm not a guy that has to have pedal to the metal speeds and I am not hung up on the 180 Berger----I'm more interested in results on the target and (hopefully) an SD somewhere in single digits. Granted, I am kinda spoiled by my 6BR that is around a 1/3 MOA laser and the 6.5 Creedmoor I shoot in our Varmint matches that produces similar numbers to the 6 BR.

Looking for some good starting points, please!

Cool looking stock, you’ll have to shoot Berger’s now!
I never shot a 284, what would you compare the recoil to?

 

[KenOath]

Looking for what loads you all have found work well in a straight .284 to use as a starting point for some load development.

Rifle is a McMillan Kestros R stock that a buddy colored up for me, Bartlein 87. twist M24 at 26", Rem 700 action accurized by LRI, Calvin Elite trigger, PT&G bolt, Vortex Golden Eagle scope. I've played mostly with a BERGER 180 Hybrid match with 52.8 grains of H4350 in LAPUA brass with a GM210M, loaded .025 off the lands and .002" neck tension. That produces a 2770 fps average and an SD of about 19, but I am NOT what you'd call tickled with the 1 /12 to 2" groups it produces at 300 yards or with that SD! ES on the 284 doesn't really row my boat, either.

I'm not a guy that has to have pedal to the metal speeds and I am not hung up on the 180 Berger----I'm more interested in results on the target and (hopefully) an SD somewhere in single digits. Granted, I am kinda spoiled by my 6BR that is around a 1/3 MOA laser and the 6.5 Creedmoor I shoot in our Varmint matches that produces similar numbers to the 6 BR.

Looking for some good starting points, please!

+or- half a grain with 51gns, 10-15 jump should get you close. 2780FPS works well for me.

 

[ronemus]

Thanks for the complement. I'd compare the recoil as EXTREMELY firm----or so. NOT my very most favorite rifle to shoot!

Cool looking stock, you’ll have to shoot Berger’s now!
I never shot a 284, what would you compare the recoil to?

The recoil is much less than a .308 and much more than a .223 (all with heavy bullets at 2900+ fps); at a constant velocity and rifle weight (16 lb), the felt recoil will be proportional to bullet weight (75 gr in .223, 162 gr in .284, and 180 gr in .308), so it's pretty easy to figure. I can just tolerate my .338 Lapua with 265-300 gr bullets at 2700-2900 fps, but only after adding a Fat Bastard brake (the factory Ruger brake wasn't cutting it). Each of us has a threshold were we say "that's enough!"

 

[KenOath]

I take it that you are speaking of H4350 when you say 51 gns, right?

Sorry yes H4350

 

[284winner]

Seems the H4350/H4831(SC) are the go too powders for the 284. I started out using it with excellent results but like many of us reloaders/shooters/hunters, we just aren't satisfied with the results completely. Sure accuracy most times was incredible but accuracy and the velocity for me needs to be where I want it. Being a hunter mostly and shooting a 25" barrel, the "go too" powders didn't get me the velocity I wanted. I only shoot the 160-168 grain bullets and wanted 3000 fps. Without pressure and other issues, I couldn't get there with 4350/4831. For me RL17 was the answer. Most or many don't like it due to some saying it's tough on throats. Ican easily get 3000 fps with it in my hunting rifle. More if I wanted with zero pressure or problems. Accuracy is excellent (not quite as good as 4831) but still .5 out to 800. For my use, that gets the nod. At 1100 rounds, no throat issues or accuracy loss. So far so good. I haven't tried further for better accuracy after getting .5 with it. 53 grains of RL17 in Lapua cases with WW primers and 162 eldx bullets is the recipe and one I'll keep. BTW, this is built on a short action. Primarily why I can't get the velocity I want with 162s using the typical go too powders for the 284.

 

[FeMan]

I have three 284s: one for F-Class, one for LR Tactical and one for hunting. Like Rushty, my F-Class load is around 51 grains H4350. You might try a different primer. I use F210M mostly but found a huge difference between them and CCI's in the 284 and use whichever one the rifle likes. You ight also try more or less NT.

I also shoot H4831sc and RL23. The SDs are nothing to write home about but they group well and have less than 1/2 moa vertical at 1k. RL23 has amazing temp stability too. I found that I don't get the barrel life with it that I do with the other two powders but its still ok and the results are worth it.