284 win W/175 sierra
- Thread starter DavidV
- Start date
284 Win is not a mag, water capacity is close to 280 REM so any slow powder ok for heavy bullet in 280 Rem will work in 284 WIN, you can load with slower powder, big mag case or overbore small cartridge ) but your velocity will be slow
I will stay in RL19, IMR 4350, N160 ...
good shooting
DAN TEC
I will stay in RL19, IMR 4350, N160 ...
good shooting
DAN TEC
Hi i shoot a 284 Win and use Molly 175gr Sierras in F Class. I use fed GM215M Primers Lapua cases necked back to where they are supposed to be and at the moment using 54gr H4831SC for 2860fps. I have tried H1000 and am getting the same velocity with higher ES and SD's and Retumbo has worked ok i have to do some more testing as it tends to give slightly higher velocities than H1000 with the same weight of powder and less pressure. I have a friend that has juse chambered a 284AI and he is getting his best results with RE25 RE22 was not as good with RE25 he is getting verry high velocities with low pressures and low ES and SD's i will be trieng them as soon as i have finished a 5 day shoot starting tomorrow. 6mm Dasher with moly 107 Sierra's for 300, 500 and 600 yards and 284 for 900 and 1000 yards all up 14 ranges 3 each of the first 4 days and 2 on the last. My 284 has a 9 twist and a .312 neck so i turn to .310 a friend in my club has an identical barrel with my reamer in it running the same load very accurate 1/2" groups at 300 yards.
Good Luck try H4831SC first as it just works you will have less elevation problems than a 6.5-286 the 7mm's seem to be better in fish tail winds.
Cheers Bill
Australia
Good Luck try H4831SC first as it just works you will have less elevation problems than a 6.5-286 the 7mm's seem to be better in fish tail winds.
Cheers Bill
Australia
Morning Guys
Just thought that I would update anyone interested on the 284.
My rifle is a Stolle with a 30" Hart 1X8 twist.
Using Sierra MK175
I started out using H4831 and H4350.
With the 4350 I started seeing preasure signs before I got to 2800 fps.
With the 4831 I was getting 2800 or a little better but wasn't satisfied with the groups.
So I Tried RL25
I easily got 2875 with no signs of preasure and a .3" group at 100 with very small extreme spreads and StdDev
It looks like the RL25 could be a winner in the 284 with 175.
More testing to come.
God bless
Good shooting
DavidV
PS Shot in a 600 fclass match last Sat.
Didn't do too well.
I have been shooting a 6Dasher
The added recoil of the 284, while not too bad, calls for a little different tech. I'll get there. I believe the round has potential.
Just thought that I would update anyone interested on the 284.
My rifle is a Stolle with a 30" Hart 1X8 twist.
Using Sierra MK175
I started out using H4831 and H4350.
With the 4350 I started seeing preasure signs before I got to 2800 fps.
With the 4831 I was getting 2800 or a little better but wasn't satisfied with the groups.
So I Tried RL25
I easily got 2875 with no signs of preasure and a .3" group at 100 with very small extreme spreads and StdDev
It looks like the RL25 could be a winner in the 284 with 175.
More testing to come.
God bless
Good shooting
DavidV
PS Shot in a 600 fclass match last Sat.
Didn't do too well.
I have been shooting a 6Dasher
The added recoil of the 284, while not too bad, calls for a little different tech. I'll get there. I believe the round has potential.
DAvid this is no good i am using a 6mm Dasher for the shorts and a 284 for the longs for F Class in Australia now i wont be the only one :-,
only joking try Retumbo aswell it has given me more promise than H1000 but all barrels are diferent so try H1000 if you have it aswell. Be aware RE series of powders although stable they are not as stable as the Hodgdon Extreem series.
Cheers Good luck
Bill
Australia
only joking try Retumbo aswell it has given me more promise than H1000 but all barrels are diferent so try H1000 if you have it aswell. Be aware RE series of powders although stable they are not as stable as the Hodgdon Extreem series.
Cheers Good luck
Bill
Australia
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David V
Not to throw cold water into the mix, and I know there are those who would argue this point, but the selection of barrel twist is important if you are looking for that extra 75 - 100 fps,i.e. you needed to go with the slowest twist that will adequately stabilize the bullet, a 1:9" twist in this case). I also had an extended discussion with Tim North at Broughton Barrels on this, and he agreed that a 1:9" was the way to go, and indicated to me that the 1:9's were doing the best. I know the Sierra box says a 1:8.5" twist or faster, but a 1:9" twist is fine for the 175 Sierras, the Berger 180 VLD's, Cauterrucio 176 VLD's, etc. In my opinion, a 1:8" twist will run your pressures up higher faster than a 1:9" twist would have, but since you already have the barrel set up, you have to work with what you have. I just did an article on a 284 Win long range rifle I made up with Alan and Dan Warner that was published in this March 2006 issue of Precision Shooting, if you want a copy e-mail me and I will send you a copy, and a copy of my reamer print as well. My e-mail addresss is rcw3@erols.com It was set up with a reamer I made up to shoot the 175 Sierras at 1000 yards. Both H4350 and H4831SC worked very well with the project rifle last year. Some options to lessen pressure and to try to get your velocity up,1) try a slower burning powder, but I don't know that that will get you where you need to go with that cartridge because any slower than H4831SC is approaching the point of diminishing returns;,2) if you have a chamber that was cut with a factory type reamer with a short throat, have it throated out to the point that when the bullet engages the rifling, the junction of the boat tail and bearing surface of the bullet is about .015" ahead of the neck and shoulder junction of the case. This would put your OAL around 3.140";,3) Generally, stay away from magnum type primers, they tended to run pressures up prematurely in my testing and did little or nothing for accuracy or velocity in my rifle;,4) Use moly bullets to try to ease the bullet's engraving into the lands and through the throat and to lessen the pressure spike,I don't typically use moly, but it can help in some cases). I don't know if any of this helps, but let me know if I can otherwise help.
Robert Whitley
Not to throw cold water into the mix, and I know there are those who would argue this point, but the selection of barrel twist is important if you are looking for that extra 75 - 100 fps,i.e. you needed to go with the slowest twist that will adequately stabilize the bullet, a 1:9" twist in this case). I also had an extended discussion with Tim North at Broughton Barrels on this, and he agreed that a 1:9" was the way to go, and indicated to me that the 1:9's were doing the best. I know the Sierra box says a 1:8.5" twist or faster, but a 1:9" twist is fine for the 175 Sierras, the Berger 180 VLD's, Cauterrucio 176 VLD's, etc. In my opinion, a 1:8" twist will run your pressures up higher faster than a 1:9" twist would have, but since you already have the barrel set up, you have to work with what you have. I just did an article on a 284 Win long range rifle I made up with Alan and Dan Warner that was published in this March 2006 issue of Precision Shooting, if you want a copy e-mail me and I will send you a copy, and a copy of my reamer print as well. My e-mail addresss is rcw3@erols.com It was set up with a reamer I made up to shoot the 175 Sierras at 1000 yards. Both H4350 and H4831SC worked very well with the project rifle last year. Some options to lessen pressure and to try to get your velocity up,1) try a slower burning powder, but I don't know that that will get you where you need to go with that cartridge because any slower than H4831SC is approaching the point of diminishing returns;,2) if you have a chamber that was cut with a factory type reamer with a short throat, have it throated out to the point that when the bullet engages the rifling, the junction of the boat tail and bearing surface of the bullet is about .015" ahead of the neck and shoulder junction of the case. This would put your OAL around 3.140";,3) Generally, stay away from magnum type primers, they tended to run pressures up prematurely in my testing and did little or nothing for accuracy or velocity in my rifle;,4) Use moly bullets to try to ease the bullet's engraving into the lands and through the throat and to lessen the pressure spike,I don't typically use moly, but it can help in some cases). I don't know if any of this helps, but let me know if I can otherwise help.
Robert Whitley
Robert -- your OAL with the 180 berger is 3.140?
I just sent a dummy to my smith to set up my throat...will measure mine and see what it is. Im a wee bit more than 15 thout ahead of hte jcn i believe...
funny thing when setting up my depth 175SMK v 180 berger...
with the die at the same setting, it puts the boattail/shank jct at the SAME point in the neck...but the OAL to the ogive is about 40thou longer on the berger round.
JB
I just sent a dummy to my smith to set up my throat...will measure mine and see what it is. Im a wee bit more than 15 thout ahead of hte jcn i believe...
funny thing when setting up my depth 175SMK v 180 berger...
with the die at the same setting, it puts the boattail/shank jct at the SAME point in the neck...but the OAL to the ogive is about 40thou longer on the berger round.
JB
rcw3
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JB
My reamer is set up for the 175 Sierras which contact the rifling about 3.140" OAL. Generally I stay away from the VLD's because they are more temperamental,in my opinion) and harder to get to shoot well. If I was going to set up my chamber for the 180 Berger I would have added about .050" to .060" more to the freebore, which on my reamer is .175".
If you would like a dimension for where a Berger 180 contacts the rifling, let me know and I will measuer one up for you.
Robert Whitley
My reamer is set up for the 175 Sierras which contact the rifling about 3.140" OAL. Generally I stay away from the VLD's because they are more temperamental,in my opinion) and harder to get to shoot well. If I was going to set up my chamber for the 180 Berger I would have added about .050" to .060" more to the freebore, which on my reamer is .175".
If you would like a dimension for where a Berger 180 contacts the rifling, let me know and I will measuer one up for you.
Robert Whitley
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
JB
I just did a little measuring with Berger 180's, and with my chamber the 180 Bergers would have an OAL of about 3.165" which puts the bearing surface of the bullet back in the case. If I was going to shoot these bullets I would need it to have a freebore .050" longer,i.e. at least .225 instead of the current .175") to bring the OAL to around 3.215"
Robert Whitley
I just did a little measuring with Berger 180's, and with my chamber the 180 Bergers would have an OAL of about 3.165" which puts the bearing surface of the bullet back in the case. If I was going to shoot these bullets I would need it to have a freebore .050" longer,i.e. at least .225 instead of the current .175") to bring the OAL to around 3.215"
Robert Whitley
JB, I have been involved with a 284w/175smk L/Gun for some time now,definately worth the effort ..This gun,not mine)won the 2 day '05 Nats in AUS,small agg,small group,3.4ins) and best agg score as well..One thing you may not have looked at is the ogive between the land engagement position and the meplat, i check just about all dimensions that you can measure on a bullet,case and the loaded round..I noticed when checking total AOL that i was not able to get it even,the reason is because the projectiles are not the same dia as you go forward up the ogive, this meant that the seating cone where it met the big dia ogive would push the bullet further into the case and vice versa..In checking the total ogive on the 175 there is a lot of varience,in the base to ogive qualifaction area i included 3 different dia ogive checkers, the one that seemd to make the most gains in 1000yd testing after the normal checks was the same dia was at the position where your seating die cone meets up ..I can now load 45 rounds for a comp that vary around 1 thou in AOL and i believe it's worth the effort..JR..Jeff Rogers
I am sure bore life is pretty good, but how about a .280 AI vs. the .284?
You could use lapua 06 brass and then size and blow out the shoulder.
Punching the numbers into QL I know can only tell ya a part of the story, I know.
The concern I see is you can't really hot rot the .284. 7 WSM your stuck with winchester brass. 7 SAUM even worse Remington brass.
So if you want good quality brass with a little extra work the .280 AI looks pretty intriguing to many I am sure.
RHINOUT!
You could use lapua 06 brass and then size and blow out the shoulder.
Punching the numbers into QL I know can only tell ya a part of the story, I know.
The concern I see is you can't really hot rot the .284. 7 WSM your stuck with winchester brass. 7 SAUM even worse Remington brass.
So if you want good quality brass with a little extra work the .280 AI looks pretty intriguing to many I am sure.
RHINOUT!
Hi Rhino the results of comparing the 280Ai and 284 give the 284 the same velocity with less powder the 280AI cases have more problems with turning banana shaped than the 284 you can use Norma 300WSM cases and neck them to 7mm and fire form them but the 7mm Rem SAUM i believe is a better case if you buy 500 cases batch the best 200 you will be fine then sell the other 300 cheeply on E Bay you will have money left compared to 100 Norma WSM cases.
Cheers Bill
Australia
Cheers Bill
Australia
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