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284 Win OR 7mm-08 OR 7mm-08 AI

AROKHUNTER

Okay, for some confusion, lol. I have took info from the very informative members here and now have a 284 Winchester in the process of being built to shoot 162 grain to 180 grain bullets.

Now I’m already contemplating my next build. I am wanting a hunting/play gun that will shoot 500-600 yards. This gun will wear a 22” barrel. No longer. Barrel will be a Krieger Remington Varmint contour. I have both a long action AND a short action available to use for the build. I’m going to shoot 140 grain to 150 grain bullets out of this one. Might shoot the 162-168 grainers if the room is there, but not a deal breaker in any way.

Components such as brass, dies, and action lengths are a non issue.

That being said, please tell me which you would choose out of the 284 Winchester, 7mm-08, or the 7mm-08 AI?

Thanks in advance, again!
 
Faced with almost the same decision, I went 7mm-08 AI and have never regretted it.

I normally shoot the Nosler 120gr BT right at 3,300 fps, and have not lost a single muley. Took it elk hunting some time back and used the Barnes 120gr Tipped Triple Shock...complete penetration on an angle shot at 120 yds on a five pt bull. (I'll admit that I usually use my M70 in .338-06 AI with 210gr Partitions)

Brass for the 284 can be problematic, you'll find good 7-08 brass everywhere, and it'll be easier on the barrel to boot. Fireform on coyotes, formed brass on game. :)
 
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AROKHUNTER said:
Okay, for some confusion, lol. I have took info from the very informative members here and now have a 284 Winchester in the process of being built to shoot 162 grain to 180 grain bullets.

Now I’m already contemplating my next build. I am wanting a hunting/play gun that will shoot 500-600 yards. This gun will wear a 22” barrel. No longer. Barrel will be a Krieger Remington Varmint contour. I have both a long action AND a short action available to use for the build. I’m going to shoot 140 grain to 150 grain bullets out of this one. Might shoot the 162-168 grainers if the room is there, but not a deal breaker in any way.

Components such as brass, dies, and action lengths are a non issue.

That being said, please tell me which you would choose out of the 284 Winchester, 7mm-08, or the 7mm-08 AI?

Thanks in advance, again!
Click to expand...
Seems like already having a 284 for 162-180s I'd think the 7-08/7-08 AI would be a good option for the light weight bullets. A 22" barrel fits that cartridge profile well. Short action would also fit it well. Also at the range you seek, the 140-150s will be perfect. These are decisions I would look at for a 7mm option wearing a 22" barrel. Good luck. John.
 
johnfred1965 said:
This was part of my reasoning, but the .284 would be overkill in a 22 inch barrel. Either of the 7mm08s would do, but out to 600, the AI will do it a bit better. My.02
Click to expand...

The .284 was built for a 22 inch barrel

Not shooting 180s of course but this guy doesn’t want to.

For all practical reasons I vote .284.
He has the components.

I’m not sure on the problematic brass?

Excellent brass can be sourced for a .284
 
I have a 7mm-08 Rem on a trued 700 action #6 Krieger 9 twist cut @ 22" in a bedded McMillian BDL stock. I have not had a bullet or powder combo that I couldn't make shoot acceptable. It's a true 1/2 MOA rifle. At the time I built it I decided that going A.I. wasn't what I wanted to do. I didn't want to have to fire form and if something happened to my rounds on a trip, I could find factory rounds and be OK. Now, I kind of wished I would have went with the AI. No reason other than to have something different and maybe a little more velocity, although I don't know how much velocity you actually get in reality.
 
johnfred1965 said:
The 284 was a failure as it was built. The 6.5 version kept the case alive until the original started coming back, with heavier bullets and longer barrels. I totally agree with all your other reasoning.
Click to expand...

It may have been a failure but it wasn’t because it was overkill on the 22 inch barrel.

I think it was a failure because the Winchester 100 was a failure and it was eclipsed by higher performance 7mm’s...

I don’t see the problem with running a .284 on a 22 inch barrel?

I’m not real emotionally involved in this disagreement, but I am a die hard .284 fan and would care to learn as to why I should buy components to load for a 7/08 when I have .284 dies brass and bullets.

Better to do that than build a short barreled hunting rifle in a .284?

Above post should be read in a respectful and curious tone.
 
CTanM said:
but I am a die hard .284 fan and would care to learn as to why I should buy components to load for a 7/08 when I have .284 dies brass and bullets.
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Really, he would have to buy new brass and bullets anyway, the dies would be an addition. If he is shooting his 284 as a target rifle, it would be better if he kept the brass segregated from that of another rifle of the same chambering. For simple separation, a different cartridge makes getting two sets of 284 brass mixed up impossible. (unfortunately, I have two 6.5x47L rifles, made with different reamers). He is also wanting his hunting/fun gun to shoot mostly lighter bullets, so no crossover there either. My opinion was based on my preference, which is longer barrels for higher capacity cases. As a hunting rifle, I would expect less muzzle blast from the 7m08 in a 22 inch barrel. I am a fan of both cartridges, and as they say, "variety is the spice of life!"
 
7 SAUM or 7-300WSM, LOL!

As to your caliber preferences, there is no wrong answer.
Personally, I would go .284, especially if you or your gunsmith has the reamer from your current build.

Best of luck!!!
 
I too agree that the 284 would be even a better option than the 7-08 for this new project gun. I just think an 08 would be a great little brother to the 284. As much as I'm a 284 fan as well, the 7-08 is a great little round that fits a SA platform better than most 284 setups will. Lighter bullets than the 162-180s and possibly run a 10 twist specifically for the 140 -160 bullets that are not a very low drag profile bullet but more game designed (bonded)bullet. Great little woods deer gun but can double as a medium range deer rifle. I don't believe the 284 was a failure back in 1963. I believe it fit the bill for a semi auto in the model 100 as did the 308. Problem was the 280 and 7mm mag was already on the scene as was the 270. The need for another 7mm wasn't necessary. Case capacity suffered some in the 2.800 OAL also. Actually the 7-08 was wildcatted in the late 50s so another existed at that time as well. Although not introduced till 1980, the 7-08 was accepted better than the 284 because it's parent case is a 308. Either way, the 284 is one of the most popular 7mm cartridges today making up for lost time.

CTanM said:
It may have been a failure but it wasn’t because it was overkill on the 22 inch barrel.

I think it was a failure because the Winchester 100 was a failure and it was eclipsed by higher performance 7mm’s...

I don’t see the problem with running a .284 on a 22 inch barrel?

I’m not real emotionally involved in this disagreement, but I am a die hard .284 fan and would care to learn as to why I should buy components to load for a 7/08 when I have .284 dies brass and bullets.

Better to do that than build a short barreled hunting rifle in a .284?

Above post should be read in a respectful and curious tone.
Click to expand...
 
CTanM said:
It may have been a failure but it wasn’t because it was overkill on the 22 inch barrel.

I think it was a failure because the Winchester 100 was a failure and it was eclipsed by higher performance 7mm’s...

I don’t see the problem with running a .284 on a 22 inch barrel?
Click to expand...

I suspect Winchester was ahead of its time, also it was chasing an apparently promising market opportunity that didn't exist, or was at any rate much smaller than it believed - new cartridges and calibres for the short-range woodland deer hunting market. Every manufacturer that tried its hand here before the 80s failed - Remington with its 6.5mm Magnum and 600/660 Magnum bolt guns, Winchester with the 358 (in whatever?) and 356 for leverguns; 284 / Models 88 and 100; a decade later the 7-30 Waters in the Winchester 94 Levergun. Either the market wasn't ready for 6.5 and 7mm cartridges at their introduction or more likely woodland deerhunters were quite happy with what they had and didn't believe they needed to spend money on new rifles chambered for metric or .35 calibre cartridges, no matter how good or otherwise those cartridges are. (Perhaps the moral of this tale is: Don't try and part a 30-30 owner from his hard earned cash! .............. or even maybe a .44-40WCF owner! :))

Even the now accepted 260 Rem in the Model 7 was never a great success, so the only really commercially successful introduction of this nature since WW2 appears to be the 1980s 7mm-08 Rem in the Model 7 and other carbines - and even that is a relatively modest niche market success on the basis of the number of commercial hunting ammunition products available for it compared to the 243 and 308 Win. Some things survived in other uses too such as the 7-30 Waters as a handgun hunting number.

The first I ever heard of the 284 (other than reading of it as a nearly obsolete number in early editions of Frank Barnes' Cartridges of the World) was when it started to be written about in Rifle, Handloader, and similar US magazines at the end of the last century, early this one as being adopted in custom rifle builds on long actions as a long-range deer and elk cartridge, nicknamed the 284 LT or 284 Win LT (long throat) to allow 3-inch or longer COALs and high BC and SD heavy bullets at impressive MVs.

I'm sure too it'll work fine in a 22-inch barrel for the OP's purposes. If wanting to use the modern generation of 160/162gn bullets I'd personally go for the long action to allow >2.8-2.9-inch COALs. (it's a shame that rifle manufacturers standardised on only two action lengths from the 1950s for 2.9 or 3.3" cartridges. I have a mid 1950s BSA Hunter in 7X57mm which uses that company's 'medium action' which suits a lot of useful cartridges accepting COALs up to 3.160". (Not that it lasted - within a decade BSA only made the CF2 in one [long] action length varying the bolt throw by repositioning the bolt-stop and using magazine filler blocks.)
 
This is why I absolutely love this site. Such great information from people that can discuss opinions and experiences in a rational manner and tone. I appreciate ALL of the info.

Anyway, back on subject. If I went with a long action 284 with the 22 inch barrel, would it have significant advantage over the 7mm-08 or 7mm-08 AI?
 
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