Is there a good cartridge that is in between 7mm-08 and 284 win? I have been day dreaming about a future project for a general purpose rifle. Informal target shooting, tactical matches, and the like. I would love to break into a 7mm round, but I would like to keep it in a short action, and be mag fed. I like the 7-08 but it seems a little under powered to really push the 162-168gr bullets well. The 284 win is a great cartridge, but is less suited for a mag fed short action. Is there a good cartridge between the 7mm-08 and the 284 win that will fit in a short action magazine and be able to push the 162-168 bullets to 2800-2900 FPS?
In between 7-08 and 284 win?
- Thread starter mao0720
- Start date
Liven The Dream
Gold $$ Contributor
I built a 7-08 few years back .
It was a Long range Target Rifle, Win. action, Krieger SS 28" 1-8.5 twist. shoot 162 A-Max ( the old Style )
I shoot a lot of 190 plus scores out of a possible 200 at 1000 Prone with Iron Sights. One wonderful Rifle.
Sold it and tried to buy it back , only to be called " Nuts".
It was a Long range Target Rifle, Win. action, Krieger SS 28" 1-8.5 twist. shoot 162 A-Max ( the old Style )
I shoot a lot of 190 plus scores out of a possible 200 at 1000 Prone with Iron Sights. One wonderful Rifle.
Sold it and tried to buy it back , only to be called " Nuts".
I did this http://www.shootersforum.com/wildcat-cartridges/74734-7mm-saum-wildcat.html (scroll down link for pictures) as a hunting rifle, a 24 inch barrel runs 162 amax at 2900 cci LR primer and 52.5 grains ADI2209 (H4350 equivalent) accuracy is very good. I am in New Zealand, shot a deer with it on Saturday, huting season is 24/7 365 out there, the rifle had accounted for quite a few animals.... Took a while to work the bugs out (I went cheap and had a 7m saum chamber shortened instead of getting a purpose built reamer). It works great as a hunting rig as I don't have to form brass very often. The novelty of forming brass wore off fairly quick......
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
If you are really trying to push the heavy 162+ bullets there is no option that is going to fit your short action mag fed needs. Mag fed is going to limit your OAL even in the 284Win you will find that people wanting to run the heavier bullets are building on long actions to get the room to seat the bullet out.
I shoot a 7-08 for my primary hunting rifle. I shoot 140 SGKs and Accubonds in the range of 2900FPS. That's all I need to reliably kill white tails as far as I can see them on any field that I hunt.
As to your search for an in-between for the 7-08 and the 284, not much out there, that's a pretty narrow band in practical terms.
Take a good look at what you can get from a 7-08 with 140s and see if there is actually any difference that you'll be able to see in practical terms. You should be able to work up a load to push the 140s to the neighborhood of 2900FPS with out much trouble.
I shoot a 7-08 for my primary hunting rifle. I shoot 140 SGKs and Accubonds in the range of 2900FPS. That's all I need to reliably kill white tails as far as I can see them on any field that I hunt.
As to your search for an in-between for the 7-08 and the 284, not much out there, that's a pretty narrow band in practical terms.
Take a good look at what you can get from a 7-08 with 140s and see if there is actually any difference that you'll be able to see in practical terms. You should be able to work up a load to push the 140s to the neighborhood of 2900FPS with out much trouble.
The way I see it after running several mock loads through a ballistic computer the 7-08 with 140s is at a disadvantage, in regards to drift and maximum supersonic range, compared to he 260rem/ 6.5 creed loaded with their respective 140gr bullets. Now if the 7-08 can shoot the 162-168gr bullets even at modest velocities (2700 FPS) it suddenly has an advantage over like sized 6.5mm cartridges. The 7mm-08 AI seems like a good Idea if it will still feed well from a magazine and give enough performance difference over the standard version.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Mason O said:
On paper, comparing a 6.5mm 140 to a 7mm 140 you will certainly see an advantage to the 6.5mm. But how much is it, and will it make a difference to you?
Now if you want to get into PRS type UKD or multiple distance shooting you should be looking at 6s running the 105 hybrid at 3050 to 3100, because that is what the big dogs are running, and they are doing it for a reason. There is more to "tactical" shoots than just paper ballistics. Flatter (more important than the small wind differences), and lower recoil so you can spot your misses is where you want to be in that game.
Here are some numbers: at 600 yards: The 7s and the 6.5 are calculated at 2900, the 6 is at 3100.
7mm 140VLD Drop: 76.6in, 12.2MOA Drift in 10 MPH 26.1in 4.2MOA
140AB Drop: 78.9in, 12.5MOA Drift in 10 MPH 28.3in 4.5MOA
B140 (6.5) Drop: 71.7, 11.4MOA Drift in 10 MPH 21.2in 3.4MOA
B105 hy Drop:62.7 -10.0 Drift in 10 MPH 21.1 3.4MOA
In real life if you are shooting at something other than an F class target does the .5 inches of drift per MPH of full value wind make a whole lot of difference between the 7 and the 6.5?
Compared to the 6mm however, the over one foot of elevation means a whole lot. Much larger margin for error there.
Well Sir, you and i think a lot alike. After long research and reading there is nothing that fills that bill..............yet. I have been working on a wildcat round for a while now and just got my reamer for it. After some fire forming im going to do load development with the Beger 168g. VLD's, I'm hoping to push them at 2850, we'll see. Actually "lurcher" gave me the idea (thanks lurcher). You can have anything you want in guns if you have the time to kill.
If you build a 7-08 A.I. and use .308 Palma Brass and neck it down, it CAN sustain loads that I would not publish here. My gunsmith built one and what he runs I would not believe, except I have seen it. He took IMR 4007, with the 162 A-Max and kept adding powder til he got a bit of a sticky bolt. He backed it off 2.0grs and worked up in 0.20grs increments. He ended up getting in the vicinity of 2825f.p.s., with a 26" barrel. He was astounded as was I. Had I not seen it I would not have believed it..
Toolbreaker
Gold $$ Contributor
To the OP, I really like the 7mm-08 round, but the difficulty in performance with the heavier weight bullets (with sane pressures) is why I got away from the heavies with this chambering. I'm kinda surprised that no one has mentioned the 7mm SAUM. It has more capacity than the .284, but the bullet can be seated deeper in the case (using up some of this capacity) while still matching or exceeding the .284's performance in a shorter package. It should do exactly what you're wanting, while still feeding from a magazine.
Edit: I see now that Lurcher did mention a variant of the SAUM. Sorry for the omission.
Edit: I see now that Lurcher did mention a variant of the SAUM. Sorry for the omission.
I get 2800fps with 168gr Berger's in my 7mm-08. Factory Tikka Varmint barrel so a tick under 24" length.
The Tikka's are long throated and my COAL's are 2.885" or longer.
I use Lapua brass, 260 Neck expanded up, 308 sized down and 308 Palma sized down.
The Palma brass holds up better although I have 6+loads on the other Lapua brass and primer pockets are still good to go.
Reloder 17 or Alliant 2000-MR both give this velocity with no silly signs of over pressure.
I've shot this rifle out to 1400yards and the load works very well.
The Tikka's are long throated and my COAL's are 2.885" or longer.
I use Lapua brass, 260 Neck expanded up, 308 sized down and 308 Palma sized down.
The Palma brass holds up better although I have 6+loads on the other Lapua brass and primer pockets are still good to go.
Reloder 17 or Alliant 2000-MR both give this velocity with no silly signs of over pressure.
I've shot this rifle out to 1400yards and the load works very well.
I built a 7-08 on a long action. Just finished load development with the 168 classic hybrids last week. 45.8 grains of h4350 gave me 2700 fps in a 25" tube. I wanted 2800 but I ran the numbers and there isn't anything I cant do at 2700 that I could at 2800 in a hunting rifle.
The lack of a suitable 7mm SA cartridge is only one reason you don't see ANY of the PRS guys running 7s, but that's only part of the story. The rest has to do with recoil & cost of components. Don't get me wrong - I love my 284s (have three of 'em), and it's hard to beat any of the good 180gr 7mm bullets available today for shots at 1000+yds when the wind's kicking up. But they're overkill for practical/tactical steel matches, and are all built on long actions, running Accurate Mag 300WM magazines out of the repeaters.
I've got a reamer for an improved 7-08 with a 30* shoulder, and have thought about chambering up either a hvy sporter or Rem varmint contour 1-9tw bbl for it. But it's just not practical to run something like that out of a AICS magazine if you're wanting to use 168 VLDs or heavier bullets. It'd make a great deer cartridge with 140s, but I'm not a hunter, so it's got very limited appeal to me.
I've had much better results when shooting steel with rifles in 6x47 Lapua & 260 Imp 30*. By next spring, I'll have a Bighorn TL2-SA in a Manners stock up & running in 6.5x47, and am looking forward to not having to worry about being limited as to how far out I can seat any of the good 136-142gr bullets in AICS mags.
I've got a reamer for an improved 7-08 with a 30* shoulder, and have thought about chambering up either a hvy sporter or Rem varmint contour 1-9tw bbl for it. But it's just not practical to run something like that out of a AICS magazine if you're wanting to use 168 VLDs or heavier bullets. It'd make a great deer cartridge with 140s, but I'm not a hunter, so it's got very limited appeal to me.
I've had much better results when shooting steel with rifles in 6x47 Lapua & 260 Imp 30*. By next spring, I'll have a Bighorn TL2-SA in a Manners stock up & running in 6.5x47, and am looking forward to not having to worry about being limited as to how far out I can seat any of the good 136-142gr bullets in AICS mags.
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