270 Win Load Development...Now What?

[Mark71]

I have another question related to this little quest I'm on.

My current sizing process is to FL size using the dies expander ball to set the neck. Checking a number of the sized cases I am getting about 0.0035 - 0.004 neck tension with the expander ball. I have recently ordered a LE Wilson expander die and mandrel which should be here next week.

My instinct is to use this expander die on the remaining cases (+/- 100) I have previously FL sized to reduce the neck tension to I'm hoping 0.0015 - 0.002 with springback.

However, I'm still in the middle of developing a load. I'm inclined to introduce this now rather than after as I am anticipating it is going to have an effect on ES, group size & MV. I suspect the different neck tension would affect groups once I start seating depth testing as well.

Long story short, I think I should resize the necks once I get the expander die and mandrel and continue with my load development as opposed to move forward with the sized expander ball brass.

For those of you with more reloading experience under your belt, is this approach sound or should I be aware of some issues with this process and not introduce the mandrel at this point?

 

[Mark71]

Self-confession is good for the soul.

Most of us that reload have been there. In my enlightened old age, I came to the realization that the most significant limiting factor in making a "good" shoot is me.

Watch Ryan Cleckner's video on acceptable accuracy. He's former special operations sniper. It's a short video but very profound and has applications to hunting.

Well...I can guarantee you when it comes to me making a good shot I am definitely the limiting factor. LOL

Checked out the video and I couldn't agree more with his comments. I'm positive when I end up with a group larger than what I know one of my rifles is capable of I am 100% confident it was because of me and likely because I was trying to hard.

 

[dryhumor]

However, I was as guilty as anyone pursuing that sub moa load for my deer rifles. I'm afraid is a common affliction amongst us reloaders.

Yes. Yes it is….

I try to shoot reasonably small, I have places to hunt that mostly average a 200 yard shot, and a few that average 400-500 yds. The last deer I took out in the midwest was a whopping…

53 yds with a 280.

 

[Mark71]

Yes. Yes it is….

I try to shoot reasonably small, I have places to hunt that mostly average a 200 yard shot, and a few that average 400-500 yds. The last deer I took out in the midwest was a whopping…

53 yds with a 280.

Agreed. I try to keep everything as tight as possible cause you never know when you come across that once in a lifetime animal at 300 or 400 yards.

That being said, probably 90% or more of everything I have shot in my lifetime (30+ years of hunting) has been 200 yards or less. Last years whitetail was probably about 20 yards with a 25-06 and factory Hornady Interlocks. This gun and ammo combination is super accurate...typically under 0.5 MOA. Hence the reason I have not even started developing a load for it yet.

 

[Gary in MD]

Mark,
I don’t blame you for wanting the best accuracy that you and your rifle can achieve.
I apologize if I missed it but what scope & mounts do you have on this rifle?
Gary

 

[CharlieNC]

First of all shooting these in a round robin fashion is not going to give you good groups, but it does provide the best definition of the charge weight node. Using that point, now evaluate seating depth based on group size.

 

[john 800]

One thing that I didn’t see mentioned is sizing the brass. I am not a fan of neck sizing, but I will say alot of people size the brass smaller than they have to or should for best accuracy. I like to measure shoulder bump and keep it at .003 or slightly more. This can sometimes make a noticeable improvement. Also, I currently own 3 270s and my dad and brother have owned a few others. In that experience the 130 hornady bullets have not been a great shooting bullet. (Not that that means they cant) Nosler balistic tips or sierras seem to just always shoot well, while the hornadys are a good bullet with “adequate “ accuracy, but not above average.

 

[Mark71]

Mark,
I don’t blame you for wanting the best accuracy that you and your rifle can achieve.
I apologize if I missed it but what scope & mounts do you have on this rifle?
Gary

It is a Vortex Viper HS 6-24x50 with BDC reticle with the vortex mounts which appear to be very solid. Haven't heard anything to terrible about them anyway.

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

I have another question related to this little quest I'm on.

My current sizing process is to FL size using the dies expander ball to set the neck. Checking a number of the sized cases I am getting about 0.0035 - 0.004 neck tension with the expander ball. I have recently ordered a LE Wilson expander die and mandrel which should be here next week.

My instinct is to use this expander die on the remaining cases (+/- 100) I have previously FL sized to reduce the neck tension to I'm hoping 0.0015 - 0.002 with springback.

However, I'm still in the middle of developing a load. I'm inclined to introduce this now rather than after as I am anticipating it is going to have an effect on ES, group size & MV. I suspect the different neck tension would affect groups once I start seating depth testing as well.

Long story short, I think I should resize the necks once I get the expander die and mandrel and continue with my load development as opposed to move forward with the sized expander ball brass.

For those of you with more reloading experience under your belt, is this approach sound or should I be aware of some issues with this process and not introduce the mandrel at this point?

Do neck tension test last. Don't change something in the middle of your other tests.

You have or nearly finished your powder charge test.

Next you had plans to do seating depth test.

Once that is complete then do neck tension test.

I have found it really doesn't matter which order you do these tests as you will usually end up in the same general area.

From what i have read is that neck tension is always last after seating depth/ powder charge testing.

Seating depth and powder charge don't really seem to matter which order you do them in.

Stay consistent. Finish each test before moving on to next one so you aren't changing too many things at once.

One last thing. A rifle will generally tell you what is to be expected pretty early on. You won't make a 1.5moa rifle into a 0.5moa consistently very often. I think for your rifle, under moa consistently is the realistic goal with your current components.

Change bullets or powder and all bets are off on what it will do. Could be better... could be worse.

Learn a load work up system that works for you and follow it. Don't change more than one thing at a time and don't abandon halfway through unless it is just spraying bullets.

 

[Mark71]

One thing that I didn’t see mentioned is sizing the brass. I am not a fan of neck sizing, but I will say alot of people size the brass smaller than they have to or should for best accuracy. I like to measure shoulder bump and keep it at .003 or slightly more. This can sometimes make a noticeable improvement. Also, I currently own 3 270s and my dad and brother have owned a few others. In that experience the 130 hornady bullets have not been a great shooting bullet. (Not that that means they cant) Nosler balistic tips or sierras seem to just always shoot well, while the hornadys are a good bullet with “adequate “ accuracy, but not above average.

I FL size with 0.002 bump, so overall working of the brass should be relatively minimal, or as minimal as possible anyway.

Good to know about the Hornady bullets. I will say the interlock factory ammo doesn't shoot very well in my 270, but it shoots exceptionally well in my 25-06. I'm hoping I can dial them in for my 270 because I have 4 or 5 boxes of them...got a good deal I couldn't pass up on.

 

[Mark71]

Do neck tension test last. Don't change something in the middle of your other tests.

You have or nearly finished your powder charge test.

Next you had plans to do seating depth test.

Once that is complete then do neck tension test.

I have found it really doesn't matter which order you do these tests as you will usually end up in the same general area.

From what i have read is that neck tension is always last after seating depth/ powder charge testing.

Seating depth and powder charge don't really seem to matter which order you do them in.

Stay consistent. Finish each test before moving on to next one so you aren't changing too many things at once.

One last thing. A rifle will generally tell you what is to be expected pretty early on. You won't make a 1.5moa rifle into a 0.5moa consistently very often. I think for your rifle, under moa consistently is the realistic goal with your current components.

Change bullets or powder and all bets are off on what it will do. Could be better... could be worse.

Learn a load work up system that works for you and follow it. Don't change more than one thing at a time and don't abandon halfway through unless it is just spraying bullets.

All excellent points. Thanks for the comments.

 

[M-61]

Many years ago my .270 load was 55.0 grains of H4831 with 130 gr. Sierra. To this day have no idea what the velocity was but, it shot little groups and killed many, many deer.

My assumption would be velocity was not a big concern.
I haven’t hunted in decades, strictly target since.
Personally when I hunted maybe the animal I shot may have had a momentary thought about velocity, but I didn’t. Now my targets (groups) that I shoot don’t care about velocity and neither do I. Never entered a drag race with my rifles.

 

[Mark71]

My assumption would be velocity was not a big concern.
I haven’t hunted in decades, strictly target since.
Personally when I hunted maybe the animal I shot may have had a momentary thought about velocity, but I didn’t. Now my targets (groups) that I shoot don’t care about velocity and neither do I. Never entered a drag race with my rifles.

Agreed. I don't care if I'm getting 2800 fps or 3100 fps, whichever groups better consistently is what I'm sticking with.

 

[Liven The Dream]

I had two .270 Custom Rifle 22" and 24" Barrels. 130 Sierra Spritzer ,150 Speer Hot Core.
Winchester Brass CCI LR , IMR 4831 ?? ( books said H-4831 ). some where 53-54grs. My Rifles must have been Different.
I shoot a lot of Game Deer,Elk and Antelope . made some long shots 550 +.
Only check Velocity once on 150 Speer 2856 !
I loaded for 3 shot groups at 300 yards.
Shot a 3 shot Clover leaf at 300 with 130 Sierra Bullets once.
Guy on this site was there not one of us could believe it.
If you can't put it down with a .270 in North America ! you must have missed.

I think Old Jack would have been proud?

 

[M-61]

I think Old Jack would have been proud?

Oh yeah!!!! He was probably responsible for selling more 270's than anyone on earth.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

IF, all else Fails,.. TRY,.. the 140 grain, Berger, Classic Hunters ( .528 BC ) they are very accurate ( 3.5 to 5 inch groups at 700 Yards for us ) in My .270 WSM and, they Kill like,.. "the Hammer of Thor" !

 

[Frankm]

You got lots of good advice here and I believe your plan to 1) try 60 grs and 2) seating depth tests at 58 grs is a good idea.

I would suggest to 1) double check your action torque and scope mounts, 2) try a few other bullets if the above plans don’t improve accuracy. Not “fancy” high bc bullets but when a rifles picky I ve seen the Sierra GK or ProHunter and the Nosler BT s excel. Personally I d try bullets next before different powders. If a 270 Win doesn’t shoot H4831 typically there’s some other issues!!
Good Luck.

 

[M-61]

If a 270 Win doesn’t shoot H4831 typically there’s some other issues!!

Could not agree more.

 

[ebb]

All the good reloading tricks in the world won't fix a poor barrel, bad bedding, optics that are defective, ect. Determine if there is another problem before spending more time chasing your tail with the plan a good load will fix anything

 

[Toms]

Agreed. I don't care if I'm getting 2800 fps or 3100 fps, whichever groups better consistently is what I'm sticking with.

I had several 270’s over the years. First rifle 1965 Winchester 70. I had a later Win md 70 that was very bullet specific. Shot Sierra 130 very good. Loaded up same load couple years later and it shot terriable. I finally revuied all my data and I had changed from flat base to boatails both 130 grain. That rifle shot flat base bullets under one inch. The boat tails grouped over two inches. Tried everything I knew and they never grouped under 2”. Good luck. My boys and I all shot 270. My standard load was 58 grains of IMR 4931 and 130 gr bullet or accurate 3100 same amount. They all worked for deer and elk. Good luck and keep trying. Tom