260 w/Lapua .308 Palma Brass

[RMagee]

Anybody using the .308 Lapua brass with the small primer to form .260? Results? Can I just run them in a FL sizer or do I need to turn the necks afterward?

 

[15Tango]

FL size, shouldn't have to turn the necks but I would hit them lightly just to clean them up. I haven't tried the .308 Palma in anything yet but I've been very curious, please post results if you do it.

Wayne

 

[280man]

You will likely use slower burning powder in your 260 vs a 308. Are you sure a small primer is what you want?

 

[skeetlee]

This brass is the cats meow! I personally want to do a 260AI with it.

 

[m-saunoras]

i wonder about forming them into 22-250?

 

[Kenny474]

280man has a very good point about slower powder in the 260. Slower powders in large cases need more flash for consistent ignition. I would be curious to see the effects of the small primer.

As for forming 22-250 brass, I would think that would require some heavy forming and a lot of brass will need to find a new home, the question is where it will build up. I know it's been done, but with the added taper of the 22-250 case and it also being shorter would make me question what kind of issues you would run into down the road with brass flowing and dealing with it wherever it ends up. Something you will likely need to try to see what the results are.

I believe I have read you need forming dies to make 22-250 from .308 and it takes several steps to taper the body, push the shoulder back and then neck down. I don't think that will be a simple trip into a FL die, though I may be wrong. That will also likely be an expensive experiment as a bunch of form dies won't come cheap. And I can only imagine the amount of brass that is going to flow around in the process. Seems like it would be more of a pain than you would get benefit from the small primer.

 

[limbic]

I just got some in the other day. I've necked them down and am going to load them with some 130vld's to fireform. I plan to gently neck turn afterwards. I have some CCI 450's magnum small rifle primers to try out. I think they should do the trick. BR4's light my 33g load in my BRX consistently so I'll see how the mag primers do with 43 or so grains of 4831SC.

 

[ChrisNZ]

One minor consideration is that necking down .308 brass will produce under-length necks. They're noticeable with the 7-08 brass I make from .308 cases, and it'd only be more exaggerated going down to .260.

Chris-NZ

 

[MarinePMI]

Chris,

Having necked down .308 to 6.5Creedmoor, I'd have to disagree. In fact, the necks end up exceedingly long and require a considerable amount of trimming. So much in fact, that I have a jig that I made on a cheap Harbor Freight chop saw, to trim the majority of the overly long neck, when necking .308 down to 6.5C.

I'm not real familiar with the 7mm-08, so with that case I can't say for sure what happens when necking down from .308. What I can say, from experience, is that the 6.5C/.260/6.5x47 cartridges should not have that problem...

 

[wapiti25]

I reamember reading that years ago David Tubb tried to use the old Rem BR (308 sized brass) in 7-08 and did not like the small primer.

 

[wapiti25]

Read the about 6XC on the cartridge guide. They found that the small primer was not as good. Try a few in a side by side test's on different day's and let us know the result. good luck

 

[Steve Blair]

Chris,

Having necked down .308 to 6.5Creedmoor, I'd have to disagree. In fact, the necks end up exceedingly long and require a considerable amount of trimming. So much in fact, that I have a jig that I made on a cheap Harbor Freight chop saw, to trim the majority of the overly long neck, when necking .308 down to 6.5C.

I'm not real familiar with the 7mm-08, so with that case I can't say for sure what happens when necking down from .308. What I can say, from experience, is that the 6.5C/.260/6.5x47 cartridges should not have that problem...

The 7-08 case length is 2.046, the 6.5 Creedmoor is 1.920 and the .260 Rem is 2.035. The parent .308 is 2.015. 7-08 and .260 formed brass will likely be short, 6.5 Creedmoor, long.

 

[MarinePMI]

Yes, but when necking down, all that brass gets swaged forward. In the 7mm-08 I don't know for sure, but considering I'm trimming close to 1/4" off the neck, I'd imagine the .260 will have to be trimmed as well (at least a little).

Being that the .260Rem is the exact copy of the 6.5-08 A-Square wildcat cartridge, which used .308 brass as the parent, I'd be hard pressed to be convinced that the .260 would be too short when using necked down .308 cases...

I'm just saying...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.260_Remington

 

[ChrisNZ]

Think about it- you're actually stealing neck to form a shoulder. I have done heaps of them and you don't even have to use a caliper to see they're shorter. The .260 must be the same, if not more so, as we're doing the same but only going further.

I'd fully expect the Creedmoor conversion to need major trimming

Chris-NZ

 

[MarinePMI]

Think about it- you're actually stealing neck to form a shoulder. I have done heaps of them and you don't even have to use a caliper to see they're shorter. The .260 must be the same, if not more so, as we're doing the same but only going further.

I'd fully expect the Creedmoor conversion to need major trimming

Chris-NZ

Chris,

Exactly! Consider the amount "stolen' from the neck to make the shoulder, then consider how much is left over when necking down. Where do you think it goes? I wish I could upload photos here to show a 6.5 Creedmoor, prior to trimming when necked down from .308. It would show the obvious amount of excessive neck that needs to be trimmed off. Like earlier posted, I am not saying that is the case with the 7-08, only making a supposition that the .260 should fine.

BTW, how short are the 7-08 cases when formed from .308?

 

[MarinePMI]

Just a follow up on this post...

First off, I want to apologize if my previous post came off as antagonistic, as that was not the intent.

Secondly, the point I'm trying to make is that it is well documented that .260 can be madef rom .308, though sometimes requiring neck turning to bring it into spec.. The 7mm-08 can not be done without creating too short of a neck. Apparently, according to Ken Water's "Pet Loads" book, the 7mm-08 that Remington produced was from the wildcat, but they added an additional .02" to the neck so that it had a full caliber (.284" length neck). The .260 already has close to a full caliber neck (.259") when formed from .308, while maintaining the 1.560" base-to-shoulder datum that it shares with the .308 (along with the 20^ shoulder as well as base and shoulder diameters).

Of interest, was that 7-08 brass, when used to form .260 did seem to expand primer pockets faster (when using Rem brass) according to Ken Water's testing in the early 80's.

Previously in the post, 15 Tango and I traded similar findings in the 6.5Creedmoor; that when formed from .308, the cases were very tight, and tended to drag a bit when chambered. I wonder now, if this was intentionally done in the 6.5C to limit case head/primer pocket expansion... Curious to say the least...

 

[ChrisNZ]

Just measured a case converted from .308 Win Palma brass and it goes 2.023 but this is probably after two firings.
The factory spec is 2.035 so at least 12 thou short

Chris-NZ

PS This is 7-08, not .260

 

[MarinePMI]

Yep, the 7-08 from .308 is short (I think we both agreed that this would be the case).

 

[TX65]

I am using the Lapua 308 Palma brass to form 6.5-08 AI. I first run the cases through a 7-08 die and then a 6.5-08 AI die. My chamber is a .293 neck so I am neck turning down to .0120" neck wall thickness. I did an initial fire forming without bullet and am completing my neck turning today as I write this. I used Unique powder with a piece of cotton ball tamped down to hold the powder in place since I would rather turn necks after the shoulder and body have been blown out.

As far as how the brass performs, used some of the 308 Palma brass in a 308 W this past Sunday and scored a 600-48x in a 300 yard match at Bayou Rifles in Houston. Shot the 308 in F-open with a .5 moa x-ring. Needless to say, I am happy with the brass.

 

[KevinThomas]

Hey Guys,

Just a quick interjection, but the concerns voiced by some here are well founded. We developed the Palma (small primer cases) at the request of the US Palma team shooters, and it is intended for a very specific application; Palma or similar match type shooting. The powders used here are generally mid-nurn rate numbers like Varget, N140/N540, 4895 or RL-15. These matches are usually held in pretty decent to brutally warm (ask German about Phoenix in July!) weather. In such applications we have yet to see or hear of any ignition problems with these loads. We are, however, extremely cautious as to using these cases in situations where ignition issues may arise. Cold weather, such as those common in many hunting applications, or heavy charges of slow burning powder, could very well result in hang-fires or outright failures to fire. A full 308 case of powder is a pretty tall order for a small primer to reliably ignite, and will likely become problematic when you start adding extra hurdles into the mix. Not saying they won't work for forming 260 brass, just saying that if you try it and start running into ignition issues in some situations, it's not a "problem" with the components. Just a case of them being asked to do more than they can reliably deliver.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA