.260 Remington VS .308 Winchester

[Gmoney0425]

Hello everyone I have a question concerning a .260 Remington and a .308 Winchester
From a ballistics standpoint what are the advantages of the .260 Remington over the .308 Winchester for long range shooting from a ballistics standpoint.

 

[XTR]

What type of shooting? hunting, or target shooting?

If target shooting is it organized or just plinking? Are you considering F class?

What weight bullets?


it's not as straightforward an answer as it appears. In general the 260 will give you less recoil and in heavy for class bullets (140gr) will shoot flatter with less wind deflection than a 308 shooting comparable heavy for class (185gr) bullets.

You can go to JBM and plug in numbers for yourself and see some of the differences.


JBM Ballistics

Now that said, if you are shooting competition a 260 may put you into a different class than a 308, and put you in competition with more hot rod calibers.

More info will yield a better answer

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Flatter trajectory...depending on the bullets used in each.

Just play with a ballistics calculator. If you really want lazer-like trajectory that completely outperforms the 308, but with similar recoil, there are better options than the 260 Rem.

If you have a 308 and are thinking about converting the same rifle and using the magazine, then the 260 or 260 AI would be good choices. Though I like to use long actions on 6.5 cal short action rounds when building a long range rifle. Allows me to seat the long 6.5mm Berger VLD's out further so I can free up case capacity and further increase performance.

 

[loneranger04]

I don't know much about F class but pretty sure it puts you in a different class. I shot .308 for two years for long range precision but shooting out to 1400 yards put you at a disadvantage over .260 and the other 6.5s for both wind call and elevation. At 1000 yards you have a good half of mil difference in 10 mph wind and a good 2.5 mils of elevation. At 1400 yards you gain over 5 mils in elevation. With my .308 and good bullets I'm holding around 20 mils of elevation. It's hard to get behind a rifle with it pointing over a thousand inches over the target. A .260 drops the holdover for 1400 to 750 inches. Better bullets in the .260 will even drop that more. Many LR shooters are turning to the fast 6mm and getting even shorter drops than the .260, but all this is at the expense of barrel life...probably.

 

[Canadian bushman]

260 is flatter and faster with less recoil.

308 has potential for more down range energy and longer barrel life.

Usually. You can take either to an extreme to make an argument.

 

[jlow]

I think a .260 Rem will put you in F-class Open.

In terms of more potential down range energy for the 308, not so true. For example my 26” 260 Rem running 140 Hybrids at 1k has a predicted energy of 803 ft-lbs, whereas my 24” 308 running 175 SMK only has an energy of 478 ft-lb at 1K. Some of that is due to the longer barrel but most of it is not. The high BC allows the round to retain a lot more energy that is lost to the wind in the fatter round.

 

[Canadian bushman]

I think a .260 Rem will put you in F-class Open.

In terms of more potential down range energy for the 308, not so true. For example my 26” 260 Rem running 140 Hybrids at 1k has a predicted energy of 803 ft-lbs, whereas my 24” 308 running 175 SMK only has an energy of 478 ft-lb at 1K. Some of that is due to the longer barrel but most of it is not. The high BC allows the round to retain a lot more energy that is lost to the wind in the fatter round.

Doesnt fare too well against my 308 with the 215 producing 1100ft/lbs at 1k yards.

If you use energy numbers from a heavy for caliber bullet in one catridge and not the other it isnt a fair comparison. The 230's numbers are even better.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I think a .260 Rem will put you in F-class Open.

In terms of more potential down range energy for the 308, not so true. For example my 26” 260 Rem running 140 Hybrids at 1k has a predicted energy of 803 ft-lbs, whereas my 24” 308 running 175 SMK only has an energy of 478 ft-lb at 1K. Some of that is due to the longer barrel but most of it is not. The high BC allows the round to retain a lot more energy that is lost to the wind in the fatter round.

Doesnt fare too well against my 308 with the 215 producing 1100ft/lbs at 1k yards.

If you use energy numbers from a heavy for caliber bullet in one catridge and not the other it isnt a fair comparison. The 230's numbers are even better.

Just depends on how he wants to use the rifle. The 260 will shoot flatter and probably do better on paper at long range and use up a lot less scope adjustment, but the 308 will probably hit big game harder with heavy bullets.

When a bullet is traveling slower and dropping faster, I have noticed while hunting in the past, a deer seems to take more "shock" from the impact when a heavier weight well designed hunting bullet hits them. Even if a smaller bullet is retaining more energy, you just don't get as much "shock" factor when it impacts an animal.

My 6.5 Rem Mag pushing 140gr Berger bullets at 3209 fps from a 26" barrel shoots as flat as can be and is a hammer on game. However, when I used to shoot a 300 Win Mag with 180gr various bullets for hunting, the game appeared to take a harder hit and drop a lot faster even though that large bullet may have been traveling slower and with identical or less energy than my 6.5 Rem Mag.

For target shooting, I vote 260 or 260 AI. For long range hunting to 1K on big game like large deer and elk, I wouldn't choose either one. Neither of those cartridges produce very good energy compared to other larger more common hunting cartridges when using the same bullets.

 

[jlow]

One can always find exceptions. I am only using the popular rounds here nothing extreme for the two caliber.

 

[Canadian bushman]

260 is flatter and faster with less recoil.

308 has potential for more down range energy and longer barrel life.

Usually. You can take either to an extreme to make an argument.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

One can always find exceptions. I am only using the popular rounds here nothing extreme for the two caliber.

But when a member asks about ballistic advantages in general...I think it is good to cover ALL the capabilities of each cartridge. Had he named specific bullet weights and designs, that would be a different story with more concrete answers and opinions

 

[jlow]

We can of course debate till the end of days about this.

In the end, it is just two different approaches since as you said, the OP did not specific. I chose the popular rounds for comparison, Canadian bushman chose the extreme. Just different approaches, together we covered both.

 

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

Gmoney0425,

To provide a helpful answer to your question, we'll need to know some details about your application. Please state:

1) Your intended shooting application: competition (F-class, tactical, etc), hunting (what size game), plinking, long range, mid range, etc
2) Will you need to magazine feed rounds from a standard length magazine?

As you can see, there are a lot of helpful people on here willing to provide analysis but you've got to help us help you

Take care,
-Bryan

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Gmoney0425,

To provide a helpful answer to your question, we'll need to know some details about your application. Please state:

1) Your intended shooting application: competition (F-class, tactical, etc), hunting (what size game), plinking, long range, mid range, etc
2) Will you need to magazine feed rounds from a standard length magazine?

As you can see, there are a lot of helpful people on here willing to provide analysis but you've got to help us help you

Take care,
-Bryan

+1. Well said.

We can talk all day about these two cartridges, but may not be giving him what he's looking for

I think some of these newer members come on here and post something, then don't check back on it for a week because on a lot of other forums, it takes that long to get any help. It's nice to have so many regular knowledgeable members here because the feedback on a post is almost instantaneous when you'r looking to solve something or get information/opinions quickly.

 

[Gmoney0425]

The application would be F- Class

 

[Gmoney0425]

Thanks for the advice everyone. The question come from my Shooting Sports Business Management Class which was asking if a person walked into your shop wanting to know the advantages of a .260 Remington over a .308 Winchester from a Ballistics standpoint for long range shooting what would you tell him?

 

[XTR]

The application would be F- Class

That is a whole 'nuther keg of powder.

You need to read the rules of F class here. The best way to put it is everything in there that applies to HP matches applies except as notes as different in section 22.

Now, the quick and dirty:

There are two categories within F class, F-TR (Target Rifle) and F-Open.

F-TR is limited to: 223 or 308, must use a bipod (and/or sling), cannot use a front rest, rifles are limited to 8.25 kilos (18.15lbs) and the weight of the bipod counts

F-Open is all other calibers .35 and under, rifles may weight 22lbs, forends have to be 3" or less, may use front rest (which doesn't count toward rifle weight).

So a 260 puts you shooting open against every other caliber out there that is not a 308 or a 223, which usually means a mixed bag of 7RSAUMs, 284WIn, 284Shehanes, 280 Rem, 6.5-284s and a smattering of 300WSMs

 

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

The application would be F- Class

The 'business class' answer to the question about 260 Rem in F-class would be: outlook poor.

Application is everything. XTR explained the rules of F-class, but I'm not sure if it hit home with someone not versed in ballistics. Basically, with a 260, you'd be outgunned by everyone else shooting F-Open; the class you'd be in with 260. F-Open basically means anything goes, and 260 is an inferior choice for that class.

However, if you were shooting LR tactical matches where quick follow up shots were vital meaning reliable magazine feeding was important in standard AR (gas operated, semi-auto) rifles was important, then 260 Rem is a viable option as most high performance magnums don't cycle well and achieve precision in gas operated rifles.

Again; application is everything. I'd never build a 260 F-class gun, but I am building a 260 Rem tactical rifle for use in the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) which demands reliable and high performance rifle operation as well as decent ballistics due to the 'tactical/practical' nature of the contest.

You probably didn't realize you were asking a loaded question! But we're here to help inform regardless.

Take care,
-Bryan

 

[ShootDots]

The application would be F- Class

The 'business class' answer to the question about 260 Rem in F-class would be: outlook poor.

Application is everything. XTR explained the rules of F-class, but I'm not sure if it hit home with someone not versed in ballistics. Basically, with a 260, you'd be outgunned by everyone else shooting F-Open; the class you'd be in with 260. F-Open basically means anything goes, and 260 is an inferior choice for that class.

However, if you were shooting LR tactical matches where quick follow up shots were vital meaning reliable magazine feeding was important in standard AR (gas operated, semi-auto) rifles was important, then 260 Rem is a viable option as most high performance magnums don't cycle well and achieve precision in gas operated rifles.

Again; application is everything. I'd never build a 260 F-class gun, but I am building a 260 Rem tactical rifle for use in the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) which demands reliable and high performance rifle operation as well as decent ballistics due to the 'tactical/practical' nature of the contest.

You probably didn't realize you were asking a loaded question! But we're here to help inform regardless.

Take care,
-Bryan

Bryan, I understand EXACTLY what you are saying about the .260 being "undergunned" as it were, for F-Open. However, I believe that is only partially true. At 1000 yards the BIG 7's definitely have an edge. However, I have a .260 A.I. that is my 600 yard F-Open rifle. This rifle is VERY hard to beat! I don't care what you are using, this (my) rifle will be very, very hard to overcome! So, "generally", I would agree with your postulation, however, as you state "application is everything".. I use a .284 Shehane for my 1000 yard F-Open rifle. However, it is doubtful I could beat my .260A.I. with my Shehane, if I shot it back to back, at 600 yards! It is simply TOO accurate, compared to my Shehane, at that range. Additionally, my .260A.I. shoots a Berger 140LRBT at 2920, which is no slouch at 600. I have shot more than a few groups (5 shots) that were under 1.5" at 600 yards. I have a difficult time shooting under 2" at 600 with the Shehane.. In my humble opinion, CONSISTENT extreme accuracy trumps B.C. all day long..

 

[Sniper338]

The application would be F- Class

The 'business class' answer to the question about 260 Rem in F-class would be: outlook poor.

Application is everything. XTR explained the rules of F-class, but I'm not sure if it hit home with someone not versed in ballistics. Basically, with a 260, you'd be outgunned by everyone else shooting F-Open; the class you'd be in with 260. F-Open basically means anything goes, and 260 is an inferior choice for that class.

However, if you were shooting LR tactical matches where quick follow up shots were vital meaning reliable magazine feeding was important in standard AR (gas operated, semi-auto) rifles was important, then 260 Rem is a viable option as most high performance magnums don't cycle well and achieve precision in gas operated rifles.

Again; application is everything. I'd never build a 260 F-class gun, but I am building a 260 Rem tactical rifle for use in the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) which demands reliable and high performance rifle operation as well as decent ballistics due to the 'tactical/practical' nature of the contest.

You probably didn't realize you were asking a loaded question! But we're here to help inform regardless.

Take care,
-Bryan

Bryan, I understand EXACTLY what you are saying about the .260 being "undergunned" as it were, for F-Open. However, I believe that is only partially true. At 1000 yards the BIG 7's definitely have an edge. However, I have a .260 A.I. that is my 600 yard F-Open rifle. This rifle is VERY hard to beat! I don't care what you are using, this (my) rifle will be very, very hard to overcome! So, "generally", I would agree with your postulation, however, as you state "application is everything".. I use a .284 Shehane for my 1000 yard F-Open rifle. However, it is doubtful I could beat my .260A.I. with my Shehane, if I shot it back to back, at 600 yards! It is simply TOO accurate, compared to my Shehane, at that range. Additionally, my .260A.I. shoots a Berger 140LRBT at 2920, which is no slouch at 600. I have shot more than a few groups (5 shots) that were under 1.5" at 600 yards. I have a difficult time shooting under 2" at 600 with the Shehane.. In my humble opinion, CONSISTENT extreme accuracy trumps B.C. all day long..

I am kind of with you on that... My 260 shoots lights out and I run berger 140s at 2940ish to me thats kind of on par with a 6.5x284, maybe slightly slower but not much. BUT with all said if I shot F-Open I probably wouldnt be doing a 260 anyways as there is other calibers that tend to give more advantage like bryan said.. 600 yards and 1000 yards are totally different too though...