260 or Creedmoor
- Thread starter CHROME
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I have AIs in both 260 and 6.5. Ballistically about the same, you can get a bit more velocity out of the 260.
I prefer the 260 as the Lapua brass is better than the Hornady. I shoot every weekend and longevity of brass is an issue.
If you don't reload, loaded 6.5 is the preferred round as it's 60% of the cost of .260
You'll get 2500 rounds out of a good barrel, either caliber. So smooth suppressed.
I prefer the 260 as the Lapua brass is better than the Hornady. I shoot every weekend and longevity of brass is an issue.
If you don't reload, loaded 6.5 is the preferred round as it's 60% of the cost of .260
You'll get 2500 rounds out of a good barrel, either caliber. So smooth suppressed.
First, there is a better brass catcher http://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Pic-Rail-Brass-Catcher/dp/B00EB5OU0Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1447509911&sr=8-2&keywords=ar+brass+catcher out there lately. Although it rather closely resembles previous (and inferior) brass catchers, it is more effective, and works well with most any rifle (and considerably longer cases than 223) that bears a Pic rail. It's very easy to displace and replace for clearing stoppages or emptying at a more convenient moment. While they are not as cheap as I would like, extra rail adapters are readily available. So, like the single AR lower supporting many varied uppers, you can get by with but a single catcher.
Since I started with the .260 well before the 6.5CM was introduced, I see little benefit from maintaining a handloading capability for two chamberings with essentially identical performances. Were I starting out in 6.5, I would be mildly swayed toward the 6.5CM, solely because of the slight bore life advantage of having cartridge with a longer neck, i.e. the slight neck extension serves as a mildly improved replaceable throat shield. But the difference is essentially insignificant in broader terms.
I still see Win 7-08 brass from time to time, but there has been a recent influx of Hornady 7-08 in my area. Sold in fifty piece boxes, I bought 4 boxes, resized one box to 260 neck dimension, and fired half of them with an arbitrary 95gr V-Max starting load. Accuracy at 200yd was quite acceptable for a varmint scenario, but not anything like the 28" barrel's full potential. The other half was loaded with NOS 140gr Accubonds and sighted at 200yd for deer duty. Using my 1000yd F-Open load under the Nosler, accuracy was indistinguishable from my match ammo.
I have been using the .260 for competitive shooting since late 2001. The only times I have found disappointing performance was when the load I was shooting had not been fully and properly developed for the current barrel.
This project will resume in Spring.
Case life is mainly dependent on proper die adjustment and resisting the usually pointless temptation to play in the deeper end of the charge weights pool. While my 140-142gr loads can run at 2850fps, they achieve highly acceptable 1000yd accuracy at up to 200fps less MV. The difference in brass longevity is night and day.
I believe that running higher velocities in an effort to negate wind effects is an unrewarding strategy. The same wind switches, gusts, lulls will undermine consistency in the rifle's POI, and all that hot loading really ensures is reduced bore longevity.
Think of it like the teen who has the 200mph hot rod, but is constrained to restrain that performance by traffic regulations. There can be a lot of frustration living on that block.
I begin some extended travel in the South and Southwest next week which will last several months.
Greg
Since I started with the .260 well before the 6.5CM was introduced, I see little benefit from maintaining a handloading capability for two chamberings with essentially identical performances. Were I starting out in 6.5, I would be mildly swayed toward the 6.5CM, solely because of the slight bore life advantage of having cartridge with a longer neck, i.e. the slight neck extension serves as a mildly improved replaceable throat shield. But the difference is essentially insignificant in broader terms.
I still see Win 7-08 brass from time to time, but there has been a recent influx of Hornady 7-08 in my area. Sold in fifty piece boxes, I bought 4 boxes, resized one box to 260 neck dimension, and fired half of them with an arbitrary 95gr V-Max starting load. Accuracy at 200yd was quite acceptable for a varmint scenario, but not anything like the 28" barrel's full potential. The other half was loaded with NOS 140gr Accubonds and sighted at 200yd for deer duty. Using my 1000yd F-Open load under the Nosler, accuracy was indistinguishable from my match ammo.
I have been using the .260 for competitive shooting since late 2001. The only times I have found disappointing performance was when the load I was shooting had not been fully and properly developed for the current barrel.
This project will resume in Spring.
Case life is mainly dependent on proper die adjustment and resisting the usually pointless temptation to play in the deeper end of the charge weights pool. While my 140-142gr loads can run at 2850fps, they achieve highly acceptable 1000yd accuracy at up to 200fps less MV. The difference in brass longevity is night and day.
I believe that running higher velocities in an effort to negate wind effects is an unrewarding strategy. The same wind switches, gusts, lulls will undermine consistency in the rifle's POI, and all that hot loading really ensures is reduced bore longevity.
Think of it like the teen who has the 200mph hot rod, but is constrained to restrain that performance by traffic regulations. There can be a lot of frustration living on that block.
I begin some extended travel in the South and Southwest next week which will last several months.
Greg
LPRoad said:
TBAC (Thunderbeast 30P-1 and/or 30BA).
I have a Savage 11 Trophy Hunter in .260 Rem. Use 7-08 Win brass necked down. Nice rifle. Accurate. But I want it a little flatter shooting for point blank out to 300 yards.
Four years ago I had an F Class rifle built for the 1000 yard stuff chambered in 6.5x57 AI using .257 Roberts Rem brass. Shilen barrel. Squared Rem action. Bought my own reamer and GO gauge from PT&G. Shot nice with 142 MKings at 2860 fps. Barrel lasted 900 rounds.
Had one of those Eureka moments. Why not re-chamber the Savage .260 to 6.5AI? Will be a little bigger cartridge than the .260AI, a little flatter shooting.
Have it all lined up with my `smith. The Fall hunting rush has slowed down and he can get at it. Driving it up tomorrow.
Good luck with your 6.5 adventure.
Bill
Four years ago I had an F Class rifle built for the 1000 yard stuff chambered in 6.5x57 AI using .257 Roberts Rem brass. Shilen barrel. Squared Rem action. Bought my own reamer and GO gauge from PT&G. Shot nice with 142 MKings at 2860 fps. Barrel lasted 900 rounds.
Had one of those Eureka moments. Why not re-chamber the Savage .260 to 6.5AI? Will be a little bigger cartridge than the .260AI, a little flatter shooting.
Have it all lined up with my `smith. The Fall hunting rush has slowed down and he can get at it. Driving it up tomorrow.
Good luck with your 6.5 adventure.
Bill
I took a Savage model 12 action, installed a 260 match barrel. Put the barreled action in a B&C stock. Loaded some 139gr Lapua bullets in Lapua brass with IMR 4350. I sighted in the rifle at 100yds. A friend and I attended a 1000yds shooting class and I took the 260 as my primary rifle.
The rifle consistently hit targets from 300 to 1260 yards. Recoil was light, and reading the wind seemed easier. Another important variable is I will be 70 years old in a week.
I have ordered a Ruger Precision rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor, but haven't shot one. I cannot comment on the Creedmoor's capability. Personally I cannot imagine it being better than the 260, but I can't say. Lapua brass to me brings the 260 to a different level.
Hoosier
The rifle consistently hit targets from 300 to 1260 yards. Recoil was light, and reading the wind seemed easier. Another important variable is I will be 70 years old in a week.
I have ordered a Ruger Precision rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor, but haven't shot one. I cannot comment on the Creedmoor's capability. Personally I cannot imagine it being better than the 260, but I can't say. Lapua brass to me brings the 260 to a different level.
Hoosier
Jarhead6870
Gold $$ Contributor
JarheadNY said:
My thoughts exactly. Most guys wanting to run 2800+ fps in a Creedmoor will have a harder time keeping brass. I know several shooters shooting the 6.5 Creed who load 41.5 grains of H4350 at 2.80 OAL with the 140 AMaxes at 2700 and 2750 fps and they have very good brass life as well as outstanding accuracy to 1000 yards.
I figured 2850 was max in my 6.5AI with 142 SMK.
Anyone running 2850 in the smaller Creedmore is really hammering their brass and bore.
Bill
Anyone running 2850 in the smaller Creedmore is really hammering their brass and bore.
Bill
I always here bad things about about Hornady brass, usually from people that haven't used their 6.5 CM. I have about 1,000 rounds through mine and have not had 1 problem with the brass. I was able to reload my brass 12 times before staring a new batch. Of that brass none of it showed that it NEEDED to be replaced but I felt that at 12 firings it was time. I have had Norma brass in my hand but always put it back on the shelf because I can't see it improving the way my rifle shoots by any appreciable amount. The Creedmoor is a joy to shoot and easy to reload for, plus if you need extra ammo you can pick up some pretty good stuff at most stores. I'll try to attach a pic of how my rifle shoots with that terrible Hornady brass.
5 shots during load testing WITH Hornady brass.
Oh, and this is running at 2840fps. I was running that lot of brass to 2910 with RL17 and STILL got 12 firings from it.
5 shots during load testing WITH Hornady brass.
Oh, and this is running at 2840fps. I was running that lot of brass to 2910 with RL17 and STILL got 12 firings from it.
Powder Valley sells H4350 for $165/8# when in stock. My last order was 48# which makes the hazmat and freight minimal. Usually split order up with a few friends. Have had good success with RL19 and H4831SC as well.
boltman13
Gold $$ Contributor
I certainly would not bad mouth Lapua brass. I use it when it is available, 223 for F-TR midrange, 308 for F-TR long range, but to be fair I have had excellent results with Hornady and Nosler 6.5 Creedmoor brass. I am not hotrodding my load, and CCI BR-2 primers are still nice and tight. I have tried to get my rifle to shoot Re-17 and 140 gr bullets with no real success. As others have said, and I agree, H4350 is the Creed powder.
boltman13 said:
++1
Some cartridges have that default it shoots powder. 222 is a 4198, 223/308 varget, 7saum H4831sc, and creedmoor is h4350. Start there and try other powders against h4350, you might find better, but I haven't heard of a creed that doesn't have a good load with h4350. Almost makes it easy to see if your rifle was built correctly.
That said, I dont hotrod my brass, 142smk 39.8gr h4350 from an LR6.5 upper and I'm in reload #8 for hornady brass. Even better, I lost one the other day (must have ejected to Mars) but since it wasn't lapua, I didn't cry...
-Mac
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