Guys, help me solve this delemma I am having. I have a Remington 700 chambred in 257 Wea. I have had problems with brass in this gun from the start. Factory brass chambers fine, but my reloads are very tight and can't close the bolt on some. The brass fits before I run it through my fl resizing die, then it gets too tight. I bought a Wilson case gauge to set my headspace back minimally thinking this was my problem. The reloads that I have will go all the way down in the case gauge to the headstamp but these are very tight in my chamber. The fired brass (not resized) will not go in the case gauge pass the belt but chambers smoothly in the rifle. Also, the brass on reloaded rounds sticks out past the end of the gauge like it might be too long. The only thing I can come up with is that factory ammo and fired brass (not resized) fit in the gun because they are headspacing off the belt and not the shoulder. When I fl resize them, it resizes the case enough where it is headspacing off the shoudler and for some reason becomes very tight to chamber. I have been stressing over this gun for months, I have sent it back to Remington for inspection and they sent it back saying everything met specs. Please Help
257 Wea Problem
- Thread starter jsthntn247
- Start date
effendude
Gold $$ Contributor
All magnums head space off the belt, or at least that is the intention. Many of us ignore the belt and headspace off the shoulder on factory rifles with oversize chambers to get better fitting brass. You fired brass fits fine in the rifle, but doesn't after FL resizing? I doubt you are making the brass case larger in diameter when resizing unless you are cruching it a small amount, so it sounds like it is too long after sizing, or the die is making the neck too large. Sounds like a little investigation with a caliper will tell the tale.
Scott
Scott
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Not meaning to correct you but Larry's collet die doesn't do anything to the case head or belt it re sizes the bulge you end up getting in front of the belt after several sizing's this very well could be the problem but I imagine the shell holder isn't letting the case to be fully re sized, in fact if you measure before and after I would imagine you will find your case has gotten longer, you haven't bumped the shoulder at all, in fact it has grown and that is why you can't close the bolt or it is hard to.....cure,.. machine a little off the bottom of the die or machine some off the shell holder so you can achieve .001-.003 shoulder bump, the Larry Willis digital headspace gauge is a very good tool for before and after measurements so you get precise shoulder bump,best of luck.TonyR said:
Wayne.
I agree with Tony. At least Larry Willis' belted mag body sizer will eliminate any tightness right ahead of the belt, which makes it easier to set the shoulder at the right length without fighting tightness in the case body. Doing the body sizing first, allows a much easier trip thru the FL die and makes for more precise control the shoulder set back.
Larry's gauge to measure shoulder set back, using a fired round as the zero, is very helpful. This process will eliminate some of the variables and get you to where you can address any remaining problems. Once you do these steps, I'd be surprised if there were any remaining problems.
IMHO,
DF
Larry's gauge to measure shoulder set back, using a fired round as the zero, is very helpful. This process will eliminate some of the variables and get you to where you can address any remaining problems. Once you do these steps, I'd be surprised if there were any remaining problems.
IMHO,
DF
Another thought. If you had Larry's shoulder set back gauge, you could measure a factory round compared to your reloads. It could be that you're not getting the round far enough into the die for proper shoulder set back. If that's the case, you may want to try a set of those shell holders with varying dimensions to get the case properly re-sized. Or, shave some material from the mouth of the die.
I'd try Larry's belted case sizer first, then measure the set back with the gauge before going with the shell holder set or altering the die. Larry's die will work for all your belted mag cases and his set back gauge is good for everything you load.
FWIW, I have no stock in Larry's company, just a satisfied customer.
DF
I'd try Larry's belted case sizer first, then measure the set back with the gauge before going with the shell holder set or altering the die. Larry's die will work for all your belted mag cases and his set back gauge is good for everything you load.
FWIW, I have no stock in Larry's company, just a satisfied customer.
DF
One more idea. You may want to check your case length. Those cases can grow after a FL sizing and yours may need trimming. Your cases fitting before sizing and being too tight after sizing makes this scenario seem reasonable. Too long brass could be jamming in the chamber.
You can make good .257 Wby brass from other belted brass. I use new W/W 7mm Rem Mag brass. One trip thru the .257 Wby FL die with some Imperial die wax produces a beautiful .257 Wby case. The biggest difference, the ones made from 7mm Rem Mag brass are a big shorter than factory Norma made Wby cases and Norma brand brass. I've read that the W/W cases are harder and the primer pockets will last longer than Norma/Wby. For sure, instead of $1.50 per case, those made from 7mm RM's are $.50. You'll have as good, if not better brass at a third of the cost. And you won't need to trim, probably ever.
DF
You can make good .257 Wby brass from other belted brass. I use new W/W 7mm Rem Mag brass. One trip thru the .257 Wby FL die with some Imperial die wax produces a beautiful .257 Wby case. The biggest difference, the ones made from 7mm Rem Mag brass are a big shorter than factory Norma made Wby cases and Norma brand brass. I've read that the W/W cases are harder and the primer pockets will last longer than Norma/Wby. For sure, instead of $1.50 per case, those made from 7mm RM's are $.50. You'll have as good, if not better brass at a third of the cost. And you won't need to trim, probably ever.
DF
Gary in MD
Gold $$ Contributor
Just another idea, you could use a neck sizing die. I use one of the old style Weatherby die sets on my 257wby and almost always neck size. I also like the wby bullet seating die.
Gary
Gary
I thought about the Larry Willis die and even called and talked with him. However, I don't think this is my problem because both fl sized and once fired brass will fit all the way to the belt with no contact. The fl sized brass will just fit past the belt down to the case head, and this is the brass that is harder to chamber for some reason. The case neck on both the fl resized brass sticks out past the end of the Wilson Case Gauge but measures 2.549 or less wilth my calipers the best I can tell. I have a neck sizer die for it now that I am going to use until the brass becomes too tight and then I will fl resize it again. Should I trim the brass to 2.545 just to be on the safe side and if so, what would this do to my overall length that I have found to be a good shooting load of 3.380
Trim to spec, just to eliminate that variable.
That won't change your COAL.
BTW, some bullets love to jump, certain ones more than others. You may want to research suggested COAL's for your particular bullet.
DF
That won't change your COAL.
BTW, some bullets love to jump, certain ones more than others. You may want to research suggested COAL's for your particular bullet.
DF
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
jsthntn247,
I can almost bet you need to bump your shoulder back as I stated in my first post, I have had this exact same problem in the past with several different Magnum rifles, the shell holders that Dirtfarmer mentions will not work for this problem as they are + sizes and you need - shell holders or you will need to trim some off the bottom of your sizing die. If your case oal is to long for your chamber you will notice it looks crimped after chambering, does it? By trimming it won't do anything to effect your oal cartridge length of 3.380. When you run your brass in a f/l sizing die that hasn't been set up to bump the shoulder will actually grow in length, do you have Larry's H.S gauge? I have one and it is a invaluable tool for setting up your die to bump the shoulder the correct amount, if not do you have a vernier caliper bump gauge set? you will need tools of this sort to get a proper measurement, if not and you can't afford them or whatever then remove your firing pin and ejector from your bolt, resize your brass and try closing the bolt, keep setting the die down a little at a time until your bolt just closes easily if you can't achive this you WILL have to remove some metal from the bottom of your die or from the top of your shell holder PERIOD!! or you will never achieve the correct headspacing on your brass.
Wayne.
I can almost bet you need to bump your shoulder back as I stated in my first post, I have had this exact same problem in the past with several different Magnum rifles, the shell holders that Dirtfarmer mentions will not work for this problem as they are + sizes and you need - shell holders or you will need to trim some off the bottom of your sizing die. If your case oal is to long for your chamber you will notice it looks crimped after chambering, does it? By trimming it won't do anything to effect your oal cartridge length of 3.380. When you run your brass in a f/l sizing die that hasn't been set up to bump the shoulder will actually grow in length, do you have Larry's H.S gauge? I have one and it is a invaluable tool for setting up your die to bump the shoulder the correct amount, if not do you have a vernier caliper bump gauge set? you will need tools of this sort to get a proper measurement, if not and you can't afford them or whatever then remove your firing pin and ejector from your bolt, resize your brass and try closing the bolt, keep setting the die down a little at a time until your bolt just closes easily if you can't achive this you WILL have to remove some metal from the bottom of your die or from the top of your shell holder PERIOD!! or you will never achieve the correct headspacing on your brass.
Wayne.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
If your brass is too long then you need to trim it as this can cause EXTREME pressures as it heavily crimps the bullet when chambered. After you size your brass then trim to length if it chambers then that was your problem but if not then it will be a headspace problem, either way you need the proper headspace it is extremely important to have it correct so it still needs addressed, if you can't come up with a number then you don't know how much you have bumped it or if you even have in fact bumped it at all.
Wayne.
Wayne.
Hal,
How could that happen in a FL sizing die?
DF
How could that happen in a FL sizing die?
DF
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Dirtfarmer,
I'm not Hal but I will answer, it is very easy to accomplish if you don't have the proper measuring equipment and you set your f/l die up by the instructions, lets use rcbs instructions for example, turn die down until it touches the shell holder then turn 1/4 turn more,....that's precision at it's finest,....not!! Shell holders even of the same make vary largely I have seen over .100 difference between them and .025-.050 is very common so if you have set your die up for a very large bump because your doing it by what the die maker says and you have a thick shell holder and for some reason swap it for another shell holder that happens to be a thin shell holder or you take the die down further then directed you can push the shoulder back so far you will create a bulge at the shoulder / case junction and it WILL NOT CHAMBER!!! that is how easily it is done. It is also possible that you can't get the die to push the shoulder back at all it just depends on several factors that's why precision measuring tools are required for precision reloading.
Wayne.
I'm not Hal but I will answer, it is very easy to accomplish if you don't have the proper measuring equipment and you set your f/l die up by the instructions, lets use rcbs instructions for example, turn die down until it touches the shell holder then turn 1/4 turn more,....that's precision at it's finest,....not!! Shell holders even of the same make vary largely I have seen over .100 difference between them and .025-.050 is very common so if you have set your die up for a very large bump because your doing it by what the die maker says and you have a thick shell holder and for some reason swap it for another shell holder that happens to be a thin shell holder or you take the die down further then directed you can push the shoulder back so far you will create a bulge at the shoulder / case junction and it WILL NOT CHAMBER!!! that is how easily it is done. It is also possible that you can't get the die to push the shoulder back at all it just depends on several factors that's why precision measuring tools are required for precision reloading.
Wayne.
I am getting scratch marks starting where the neck meets the shoulder that extend in one light jagged scratch all the way down the side of the case. I am thinking my chamber might be rough. Could this cause hard chambering. Also, the ejector is extremely hard to push down, 3 times harder than the rest of my rifles, and I always get ejector marks on my brass, whether the load is hot or not. Could the extremely stiff ejector be not allowing the brass to chamber because it is so dang hard to push down?? After bolting a few rounds, whether firing them or not, I always get brass shavings on my bolt face. This fella here was experiencing the same problems as me and found out it was the ejector/extractor. http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1785610
effendude
Gold $$ Contributor
Two pages of comments telling you what to buy and try....
-your fired brass fits ok in the rifle when reinserted.
-factory ammo fits fine
Conclusion is the reloading process is causing issues as I described in my earlier post, the first response to your question. You are either squashing your case a small amount similar to stepping on a beer can, or resizing is stretching the case and making it too long to fit in the chamber.
-Measure the length of a factory loaded round from base to the end of the neck and compare this to your resized round. If it is longer than the factory or your unsized fired round, this could be the issue. Trim to match the factory round and try chambering, if it fits, you found the issue. If it still won't fit, you haved issues with the resizing die.
You can buy thousands of dollars of special stuff to make great ammo, but you need to solve the simple issues before you need to do anything else.
Scott
-your fired brass fits ok in the rifle when reinserted.
-factory ammo fits fine
Conclusion is the reloading process is causing issues as I described in my earlier post, the first response to your question. You are either squashing your case a small amount similar to stepping on a beer can, or resizing is stretching the case and making it too long to fit in the chamber.
-Measure the length of a factory loaded round from base to the end of the neck and compare this to your resized round. If it is longer than the factory or your unsized fired round, this could be the issue. Trim to match the factory round and try chambering, if it fits, you found the issue. If it still won't fit, you haved issues with the resizing die.
You can buy thousands of dollars of special stuff to make great ammo, but you need to solve the simple issues before you need to do anything else.
Scott
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