250gr A Tip in a 308

[XTR]

I've seated long, really long but unless you are breach seating the way the Schutzen guys do you have to have some bearing surface in the case. Just for fun, if you have any 200.20x bullets around, take one, seat it to a 2.390 BTO. That's what I've been shooting for the last couple of yrs in one of my barrels. It's worn out now, but for the last 3 yrs it's been an absolute hammer.

The barrel wasn't intentionally set up that way, I throated it for 200 Hybrids and then got 2000 of the 20x's when they were new not knowing how differently they'd seat.

The 215 Hybrid has such a long boat tail that it makes it almost to the junction with no bearing surface in the case.

I have a test I do when I'm trying to see what I can get in a case. I size a fired case with no bushing and don't decap, then i fill it with powder and drop a bullet on top of the powder, when I get it to the point that it's about as far out as I believe I can seat it I weigh the powder. That's my max load.

 

[davidjoe]

I've seated long, really long but unless you are breach seating the way the Schutzen guys do you have to have some bearing surface in the case. Just for fun, if you have any 200.20x bullets around, take one, seat it to a 2.390 BTO. That's what I've been shooting for the last couple of yrs in one of my barrels. It's worn out now, but for the last 3 yrs it's been an absolute hammer.

The barrel wasn't intentionally set up that way, I throated it for 200 Hybrids and then got 2000 of the 20x's when they were new not knowing how differently they'd seat.

The 215 Hybrid has such a long boat tail that it makes it almost to the junction with no bearing surface in the case.

I have a test I do when I'm trying to see what I can get in a case. I size a fired case with no bushing and don't decap, then i fill it with powder and drop a bullet on top of the powder, when I get it to the point that it's about as far out as I believe I can seat it I weigh the powder. That's my max load.

You definitely need these. That’s the kind of thinking that can maximize their potential. The only way I could ever shoot my TR rifles is if matches permitted double entry, which I haven’t gotten traction suggesting. I’m F-Open.

Maybe, with Etargets, matches would start to permit double entries.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

You definitely need these. That’s the kind of thinking that can maximize their potential. The only way I could ever shoot my TR rifles is if matches permitted double entry, which I haven’t gotten traction suggesting. I’m F-Open.

Maybe, with Etargets, matches would start to permit double entries.

I don't see why not. You should ask the MD the next time and see if he/she will stoop to taking double your money.

 

[284winner]

Varget is definitely the established gold standard for long strings and varying conditions. I’ll be trying it and probably 4350 as well.

edit - Varget would seem to be logically ruled out. Everyone runs ~ 44.4 grains of Varget with 200’s, even though the case holds more. If you could load that same charge with much heavier 250’s, that would imply that all of TR is leaving significant performance on the table. If Varget is optimized for the 200 below case capacity, then it is too fast burning for the 250’s.

How about RL15. I use it regularly in my 308 with up to the 200 grainers. Seems to be a great option. Just not sure about the real big heavy 30 Cal bullets.

 

[steve123]

It's really no different that the 300 blackout running the 200+ projectiles. Sierra has load data for the 230/240 smk bullets for the 300 Blackout.

I tried most of the heavies in a 300BO bolt rifle, for me the vertical by 500Y was horrible??? around a foot of vertical.

Interesting was that my friends with their 45-70 Sharps and 535gr cast bullets that were weighed and sized had decent vertical, like 5 - 6" or so at 500M.

Maybe there is something to the poor vertical of long bearing surface copper jacketed bullets at slow velocities??

 

[dcali]

I tried most of the heavies in a 300BO bolt rifle, for me the vertical by 500Y was horrible??? around a foot of vertical.

Interesting was that my friends with their 45-70 Sharps and 535gr cast bullets that were weighed and sized had decent vertical, like 5 - 6" or so at 500M.

Maybe there is something to the poor vertical of long bearing surface copper jacketed bullets at slow velocities??

I don't know about a 45-70, but do the math on a 200+ grain .30 cal at 1000 fps and 1010fps. The math says about 7" of vertical between the two at 500 yards. A .300 BLK is just plain slow, so you have to lob them. It's cool at short range because you lose almost no muzzle energy by the time you get to the target - they just don't slow down. But beyond a couple hundred yards, and you get lots of vertical simply due to muzzle velocity variation. It's just not designed for the task.

 

[davidjoe]

How about RL15. I use it regularly in my 308 with up to the 200 grainers. Seems to be a great option. Just not sure about the real big heavy 30 Cal bullets.

Truly, yes, I can’t overlook the Alliant powders. I regularly use 17, 25, 26, and 33, and have on hand 15,16, and 22. I also use Hodgedon powders.

I don’t know how any choice would fare well on MV that is not an Alliant powder, though.

Alliant powders are perceived to be more temperature sensitive than others. I don’t know this to be true, but I do refine my vertical holds as the barrel heats and I do primarily compete with them. I do not have bad SD’s at all, though and often -ok always- have the highest velocities while never the scores - that’s me v. wind - not an Alliant issue.

 

[284winner]

Truly, yes, I can’t overlook the Alliant powders. I regularly use 17, 25, 26, and 33, and have on hand 15,16, and 22. I also use Hodgedon powders.

I don’t know how any choice would fare well on MV that is not an Alliant powder, though.

Alliant powders are perceived to be more temperature sensitive than others. I don’t know this to be true, but I do refine my vertical holds as the barrel heats and I do primarily compete with them. I do not have bad SD’s at all, though and often -ok always- have the highest velocities while never the scores - that’s me v. wind - not an Alliant issue.

RL17 is temp sensitive in my 284s but it's controllable. Meaning I use it in hunting rifles so my load work is done at similar temps I hunt in. Pretty predictable that way. RL15 I haven't had any issues with in that area. I shot it alot out in summer heat in ND/SD in prairie dog towns years back in my 308. Used the 185 VLDs for the 1000 yd + shots. Seemed pretty consistent. Nothing beats the 17 in the 284s for the 180s. 3000 fps is pretty easy to obtain with it and accuracy is good

 

[davidjoe]

Yeah, 25 is that, for me. Because I use 195’s. I never let myself run low on either one.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Curious if you can get enough H4350 in the case. It will depend on the length of the boat tail and the lot number I think.

I've noted here before that 4-5 yrs ago I was experimenting with Berger 215s and H4350 in WW brass for F-TR. I had a really good load running 47.5 grains and getting 2550-2575FPS, then I had to change powder lots. Load dropped to 2465 and I could not get enough powder in the case to make it work. So now I've got about 15 lbs of H4350 and 1000+ 215 Hybrids for which I really have no use.

I'd be more inclined to find a VV powder that will work, esp if you are running at the edge of capacity. That is how I stumbled onto VV N150 for 200s in F-TR. I was looking at burn rates and thought it would be a slightly faster than H4350 option. It's not, with 200s loads are usually w/i 0.2 gr of Varget.

Greg once commented that I was approaching an "event horizon" trying to find a powder that was slightly faster than H4350, that was temperature stable, and had a density that would work in a 308 case.

I do have this 1:8 twist barrel here from a different failed experiment. hmmmm...

Wade - I think it's time to break out the H4350 and the mortar and pestle .

 

[Down South]

David, if it were me testing these 250s I'd jump straight to H4350 "IF" you can get enough powder in the case. Use a long drop tube and pour slowly. If H4350 doesn't work it would be VV N-150 or Varget to try next. If competition is the intended goal with these monsters stick with single based powders. Double based powders have been tried with many top shooters over the years and everyone I've talked to has went back to single based powders. Velocity is not the end all be all, accuracy trumps everything.

 

[davidjoe]

I’ll chronograph some rounds with 4350 next. Agree that 2,500+ isn’t necessary.

 

[rimfiremac]

Putting Pirellis on your Ford will never make it a Porsche.

Use the lighter Atip if you're loading 308win...

 

[davidjoe]

Putting Pirellis on your Ford will never make it a Porsche.

Use the lighter Atip if you're loading 308win...

If only Fords may enter the particular race, and one of them has better tires...

The 230 has a slightly better ratio of G-7 BC to bullet weight, than the 250 does, according to Hornady. This is curious to me.

 

[davidjoe]

47.0 grains of H4350.

 

[davidjoe]

To me, this primer and case head looks just fine. There was no bolt lift resistance at all. This powder does crunch at 47.0 quite noticeably more than 17 did at 48.0.

 

[XTR]

Back when I ran 215s over H4350 someone ran a QL for me and calculated that I was at ~55000 PSI. I was running Large primer brass and having no issues at all, in Palma brass with half a grain less you'll probably never lose a pocket.

 

[davidjoe]

Here’s one with the BR4 primer. I consider it to be a tad weaker, but probably more consistent. It also handled the pressure, and generated almost the same velocity.

 

[Jdne5b]

Here’s one with the BR4 primer. I consider it to be a tad weaker, but probably more consistent. It also handled the pressure, and generated almost the same velocity.

My N140 primers look flatter than that but less cratering since I bushed the bolts.

 

[Down South]

47.0 grains of H4350.

Years ago when I ran 230 berger hybrids 2450 ish velocity was where I was running them. I was using H4350 with Lapua large primer brass at the time.