25 Roberts

[257Roberts]

Anybody have any experience with the original 25 Roberts? Maybe later called the Neidner-Roberts?

Its shorter, with a shallower shoulder. Anybody know about reloading dies? I assume they could be formed from 257 Roberts brass.

Love to hear and hands on information on this one. Thanks

 

[No manches"]

I would also like to hear about this.
Since I haven't heard of any (short 257 Robert's case) ever been around.

I have 2, 257 Robert's 1 normal and the other an ackley.

 

[wildcatter]

That would be what the 257 Roberts was called by its creator before it was commercialized by Remington.

If you want a shortened 25, I would suggest a 257x47 Lapua. Make life simple and have great brass to do it with. simply neck size the factory 6.5x47 and smile. I prefer the 257 Roberts Ackley Improved myself. but Ned Roberts is who created the 257 Roberts, Remington gave it proper specs and named it when they made it a commercial cartridge.

 

[RGRobinett]

That would be what the 257 Roberts was called by its creator before it was commercialized by Remington.

If you want a shortened 25, I would suggest a 257x47 Lapua. Make life simple and have great brass to do it with. simply neck size the factory 6.5x47 and smile. I prefer the 257 Roberts Ackley Improved myself. but Ned Roberts is who created the 257 Roberts, Remington gave it proper specs and named it when they made it a commercial cartridge.

As is the .257 Roberts, and it's improved versions, the 25x47 LAPUA (simply necked-down 6.5x47) is a GREAT cartridge, delivering very similar performance to the plain-jane Roberts. If you like the capacity, and like to hot rod, the LAPUA brass will take more of a beating. Back in 2012 & 13, while piloting a Bartlein 1:9" twist, 5-groove, 25x47 LAPUA, 110Gr. BT, yours truly won two yardages (both at 200Yd.) and a Grand Aggregate at the NBRSA Hunter Nationals. My best Nats. 100Yd. finishes were top five - not the fault of the cartridge, but rather poor judgment/execution. All of these cartridges are capable.

For hunting, I favor the .257 Roberts Ackley Imp., or, the 25x300WSM (pretty much a .257 Wby) in shorter pants. Good shootin'! RG.

 

[Kiwishooter]

Years ago my brother had a 25/06 built which didn't shoot that well and while talking to someone about it they showed me a 257 Roberte Ackley Imp loaded round, I thought it was so sexy so started doing some research about it.
Ever since then I have had aspirations of building a 257 Roberts Ackley Imp, based on a Stiller Predator action, I have the action, dies, reamer, just need a barrel, trigger and a stock..........oh and some cases and bullets

What bullets do you use in the 257 R AI RG?

Kiwi

 

[jackieschmidt]

I always thought that the 25 based on the necked down 7x57 Mauser was and always has been the “257 Roberts”, which was and still is a great medium capacity cartridge.
The “25 Neidner” was the precursor to the 25/06, which became the official 25/06 when Remington commercialized it.

The 257 Ackley Improved is probably one of the more efficient cartridges.

I never new that there was a shorter version of the 257 Roberts, other than the 250 Savage.

 

[clowdis]

I have a Winchester high wall that was built by A.O. Neidner and the barrel is stamped .250 Roberts. It is in fact identical to the .25 Krag. Don't know if that's what you're talking about but interesting never the less.

 

[wildcatter]

As is the .257 Roberts, and it's improved versions, the 25x47 LAPUA (simply necked-down 6.5x47) is a GREAT cartridge, delivering very similar performance to the plain-jane Roberts. If you like the capacity, and like to hot rod, the LAPUA brass will take more of a beating. Back in 2012 & 13, while piloting a Bartlein 1:9" twist, 5-groove, 25x47 LAPUA, 110Gr. BT, yours truly won two yardages (both at 200Yd.) and a Grand Aggregate at the NBRSA Hunter Nationals. My best Nats. 100Yd. finishes were top five - not the fault of the cartridge, but rather poor judgment/execution. All of these cartridges are capable.

For hunting, I favor the .257 Roberts Ackley Imp., or, the 25x300WSM (pretty much a .257 Wby) in shorter pants. Good shootin'! RG.

Years ago my brother had a 25/06 built which didn't shoot that well and while talking to someone about it they showed me a 257 Roberte Ackley Imp loaded round, I thought it was so sexy so started doing some research about it.
Ever since then I have had aspirations of building a 257 Roberts Ackley Imp, based on a Stiller Predator action, I have the action, dies, reamer, just need a barrel, trigger and a stock..........oh and some cases and bullets

What bullets do you use in the 257 R AI RG?

Kiwi

Noy RG and will let him address his bullets. I personally use his 88grn HPBT for Varmint, but my hunting rifle for deer to Elk is the 110 grn Nosler Accubond. Both rifles are tack drivers, H4350 for the 88s shoots .250 moa when i do my part. The Nosler 110 will give me .3" moa, and shoot to the same poi from a clean cold barrel for the 3 shots that are all i shoot for group with this rifle.

To address my brass needs for the 257 AI, I choose 8x57 Mauser brass from Lapua. Well worth the work, and a case the when necked down and the neck cleaned up will equal the 6.5x47 Lapua case for the bigger Bob round.

I just put together my first sporter wieght rifle for BG. But like others, can think of no more efficient quarter bore than the bib Bob.

 

[RGRobinett]

Years ago my brother had a 25/06 built which didn't shoot that well and while talking to someone about it they showed me a 257 Roberte Ackley Imp loaded round, I thought it was so sexy so started doing some research about it.
Ever since then I have had aspirations of building a 257 Roberts Ackley Imp, based on a Stiller Predator action, I have the action, dies, reamer, just need a barrel, trigger and a stock..........oh and some cases and bullets

What bullets do you use in the 257 R AI RG?

Kiwi

My pet load for the 257Roberts AI is a 110Gr. BT, with a decent charge of RL-17, which, via 24" barrels, produces 3330 FPS MV - the PacNor 1:10" twist #4 contour barrels usually produce 5-shot 100 Yd. groups <0.5". Prior to the RL-17, the favored powder, until it's demise was Win 785, which produced a solid 3100 MV; a close second was H-4831SC (AR2231SC), at just shy of that mark: both also delivered very good precision. In the .25 Cal. cartridges, RL-17, surprisingly, delivered all of the ALLIANT hype and then some. It's as if this powder was developed especially for the .25" expansion ratio!

Here's a link to a video of yours truly shooting a 'cull' mule deer buck, from about 670Yd, using the .257 Roberts AI/110 BT/RL-17 combination. < https://bibullets.com/2018/01/08/first-blog-post/ >
You may have to scroll though some dead animal pics to find the video.

Regrettably, J4 no longer makes/sells the 1.125" long jacket used to make that bullet, and they will not sell any .25 Cal. jackets. Especially for hunting, there are some decent bullets out there. For deer sized game, the .25 Cals. are impressive, DRT, options. I have and use .250/3000; 25x47LAPUA; .250Savage Ackley Imp.(250/3000 by another name); .257 Roberts AI; .25/300 WSM (simple neck-down/identical head-space) - all are GREAT! For hunting, the favorites: .257 Roberts AI & .25/300 WSM (110 Gr. BT
at 3540FPS): essentially, the same difference as .25/06 & .257 Weatherby performance . . . just different packaging. RG

 

[Darkside]

Tag

 

[358WCF]

Anybody have any experience with the original 25 Roberts? Maybe later called the Neidner-Roberts?

Its shorter, with a shallower shoulder. Anybody know about reloading dies? I assume they could be formed from 257 Roberts brass.

Love to hear and hands on information on this one. Thanks

No 1st hand experience here with anything other than the standardized 257 Roberts & the 257 Ackley Imp, but Ken Waters wrote, in depth, about the 3 versions of the 25 caliber Ned Roberts cartridge in his original "Pet Loads" article from the 11-66 Handloader magazine. Many others were involved in the multiple developments, T. Whelen, A. Neidner, a Mr. Weldin of Hercules powder, Griffin & Howe, etc. He does a much better job than I can in a brief synopsis, but shoulder angle was monkeyed with as well as case length. I believe the article is also reprinted in Wolfe's Pet Loads.

 

[long40shot]

H4350 with the 110grn and 117grn bullets is a great combo in my 257 Roberts Ackley.

 

[std7mag]

Lets not forget that there are 2 different pressure levels for the 257 Roberts.
The lower one is for older rifles and is the pressure levels that you will find if you buy factory ammo.

Then there is the +P level for more modern firearms.

For the record, I do load to +P levels. And I have some older Frontier casings that have shown no ill effect being loaded to +P.

My typical loads are PPU (PVRI PARTIZAN) 7X57 Mauser necked down to 257 Roberts with a single pass in the 257 full length sizing die.
I typically use 155gr NBT or Berger VLD over a charge of Hybrid 100V for deer and black bear.

Coyotes is a 90gr Sierra BlitzKing over H414 (W760).

I use the same powder and bullets in my 257 Roberts AI also.

 

[wildcatter]

Just shot my first 2- 3 shot groups out of the newest build. I'm actually after 56 shots thru the 1-10 Brux #4 sporter @ 24" just firing the first rounds with the formed 8x57 lapua brass. 54.5 and 55.0 grains IMR-7828. This barrel has shot copper free from the first shot, then 2 shots clean, and 3 shots clean. Never a bit of copper!

But surprisingly to me, bot three shot groups shot just under .75" moa. The real surprise came at 3190 fps and 3220, with Spreads in the teens. I planned on H-4831 being my best bet, but, I was hoping to see 3200 fps, and since this hit it, surprisingly. Along with the fact I am about .020" into the lands, I think I'll stick with the 54.5 grain load, and start backing out .005" at a time with three shot groups and see what it gives me accuracy wise.

I aint a speed chaser, and 100 fps is realy meaningless. But if the 7828 will show me .5" moa, and 3190 or more, I'd have my load with 500 of the 110 Accubonds on the shelf and a 8pound can of the old IMR-7828 siting next to them. Anything from antelope sheep and deer up to Elk, I'd say woul be in trouble out to 500 yards, and a bit further for the smaller species. All wishfull thinking at this age?? But you never know, the Good Lord moves in mysterious ways!

 

[ISS]

In a moment of weakness, I took a Remington Classic in 250 Savage and had it rechambered to 25-284. picked up about 250fps.

 

[xr650rRider]

I typically use 155gr NBT or Berger VLD over a charge of Hybrid 100V for deer and black bear.

Coyotes is a 90gr Sierra BlitzKing over H414 (W760).

I use the same powder and bullets in my 257 Roberts AI also.

155 grain is a lot of bullet for a .25?

 

[std7mag]

155 grain is a lot of bullet for a .25?

Oops....
Thanks for that!!
Fat fingered.
Meant to say 115gr.

 

[std7mag]

Just shot my first 2- 3 shot groups out of the newest build. I'm actually after 56 shots thru the 1-10 Brux #4 sporter @ 24" just firing the first rounds with the formed 8x57 lapua brass. 54.5 and 55.0 grains IMR-7828. This barrel has shot copper free from the first shot, then 2 shots clean, and 3 shots clean. Never a bit of copper!

But surprisingly to me, bot three shot groups shot just under .75" moa. The real surprise came at 3190 fps and 3220, with Spreads in the teens. I planned on H-4831 being my best bet, but, I was hoping to see 3200 fps, and since this hit it, surprisingly. Along with the fact I am about .020" into the lands, I think I'll stick with the 54.5 grain load, and start backing out .005" at a time with three shot groups and see what it gives me accuracy wise.

I aint a speed chaser, and 100 fps is realy meaningless. But if the 7828 will show me .5" moa, and 3190 or more, I'd have my load with 500 of the 110 Accubonds on the shelf and a 8pound can of the old IMR-7828 siting next to them. Anything from antelope sheep and deer up to Elk, I'd say woul be in trouble out to 500 yards, and a bit further for the smaller species. All wishfull thinking at this age?? But you never know, the Good Lord moves in mysterious ways!

You may want to take a look at Hybrid 100V.

22" barrel is seeing just under 3,000fps with a 115gr bullet and almost 3,200fps with the 100gr bullets loaded at +P pressures.

 

[wildcatter]

You may want to take a look at Hybrid 100V.

22" barrel is seeing just under 3,000fps with a 115gr bullet and almost 3,200fps with the 100gr bullets loaded at +P pressures.

Like I said, I already have the 3200 fps I was looking for, this is with brass that aint trimmed and first time loading bullets in it. fireforming is just blowing them out. I use 15 grains of Bullseye, with a full case of cream of wheet, or sometimes polishing media, and cap it with Zest bar soap. that lets me shoot my first bullets the second fireing with the brass being close. headspace is withing .003" from case to case, and the OAL is 2.232 to 2.237, then I was cramming the rifelings .027" from touch.

I am sure this load with trimmed and fully formed brass, and maybe .015 to .005 into the lands will easily hit that .5" moa. if it only improves enough to hit .6moa, hell thats dead venison every shot out to 500 yards. With this being a hunting rifle i would be a fool to peruse more. Hell at 600 thats under 4" groups.

I learned a long time ago the difference in what it takes to kill game, and it dang sure don't take what it does to win a match! I'll report back, but if this load don't hit that .5" mark and give me that 3200 fps give or take 50 fps which is meaningless, it will be the first time I couldnt tune a load that is where this is now.

but the last thing I will do is add powder I have no use for. Over the years I have learned there only 4 or 5 powders needed to load any cartridge, if you stock versatile powders. Most powders are to picky for wat cartridge they will work in. But I'm thinning powders at this stage, not entertaining new.

 

[sandwarrior]

The difference is the original 25 Roberts (as conceived by Ned Roberts and created by A.O. Niedner) had a 15 degree shoulder like the 30-06, when Remington standardized (SAMMI'd) the cartridge they used a 20 degree shoulder like the 7mm Mauser...and left the pressures way too low. It is not shorter than the standard .257 Roberts, just the lower degree shoulder. There has never been brass made for it. But, you could fireform down to the 15 degree shoulder, but it would provide nothing in terms of increase in performance. Unless, you increased the pressure, which would happen if you used the standard .257.