25 Krag Ackley
- Thread starter Tommie
- Start date
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Yeah. Never saw that one coming...
Gary in MD
Gold $$ Contributor
I remember an article about that very cartridge in an old edition of handloaders digest. The author had a nice custom rifle chambered as such. If I remember right, it achieved velocities right close to the 25-06. I could probably find it if needed.
Gary
Gary
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Ill look in the pet loads book
Gary in MD
Gold $$ Contributor
A nice write up, and the author tested a couple dozen loads.
Gary
Gary
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
I've always wanted to do a 7mm AI Krag. The cartridge has a world of potential* in a rifle that uses a rimmed case, and that long neck is really good for guys who want to cast.
*I recognize that this is not an original thought.
Edit: I say above that I've always wanted to make a 7AIKrag, and in my fist learning about the cartridge and falling block actions I did, and I'd still like to, but the reality is these days I want to do one in 30, put it in a falling block action, and shoot cast boolits. The Krag is one of the cases that PO Ackley had great success improving. It goes from ~ 308 win to ~ 30-06 capacity give or take when you AI it. I would imagine a 25 would be a great round, esp in the right rifle.
*I recognize that this is not an original thought.
Edit: I say above that I've always wanted to make a 7AIKrag, and in my fist learning about the cartridge and falling block actions I did, and I'd still like to, but the reality is these days I want to do one in 30, put it in a falling block action, and shoot cast boolits. The Krag is one of the cases that PO Ackley had great success improving. It goes from ~ 308 win to ~ 30-06 capacity give or take when you AI it. I would imagine a 25 would be a great round, esp in the right rifle.
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Today may be your luckily day. My son built a 25 Krag Imp on a P-14. I have been able to shoot it some. Made a shot on a Prairie Dog at 635 yards with it. But of course he didn't listen to me when he built it. While the 25 Krag is a great cartridge; the Krag cartridge isn't the easiest thing to find. I told him I thought he would be better off if he did the 25/303 British Improved. I can find British brass and ammo a lot easier than Krag brass. The Krag was only made in three factory rifles, the Military Krag, the 1895 Winchester (I have never seen an original one but they did make a reproduction) and the Number 3 Ruger. The 303 was also made it limited Models but they are still available in numbers that the Krag isn't.
He formed his cases by necking down the Krag with a 7mm Mauser die, a 6.5 Swede and final with a 257 Roberts Ackley Improve die. He uses the 257 Rob ACK Imp die to neck size his fire rounds and the 257 Rob Ack seating die. He uses 257 Robert ACK IMP loading data and works from there.
He cases cycle through the action without any issues.
It has a Cool Factor that is off the charts today. I still think he should of done the 25/303 Improved
400 Whelen
He formed his cases by necking down the Krag with a 7mm Mauser die, a 6.5 Swede and final with a 257 Roberts Ackley Improve die. He uses the 257 Rob ACK Imp die to neck size his fire rounds and the 257 Rob Ack seating die. He uses 257 Robert ACK IMP loading data and works from there.
He cases cycle through the action without any issues.
It has a Cool Factor that is off the charts today. I still think he should of done the 25/303 Improved
400 Whelen
a) Welcome to the board.
b) Thanks for the excellent information.
Years ago and days gone by, back at the start of my career in gunsmithing, I was introduced to that epic tome by Donnelly; "The Handbook of Cartridge Conversion". I spent weeks pouring over every page multiple times until I could quote dimensions, pressures and the methodology of the conversions. I was captivated!
It was during this exploration that I happened upon the .25 Krag Improved. The fact that it was rimmed did not impress me at the time since I was inundated with rimless cartridges and bolt action rifles. Then miraculously I discovered the Siamese Mauser actions. Strong, well build, intelligently designed right down to that sliding dust cover. So now the plan could begin to take shape with the exception of actually having my hands on one of those actions. But it wasn't long before an acquaintance mentioned that he had several Siamese actions in excellent shape. His plan was to fall head long into that ridiculous idea of building .45-70s on these marvelous actions.
Some idiotic gun writer had tried to sell this as great idea (he got paid) when all he managed to do was encourage thousands of wannabes to trash these superb actions in an attempt to build a rifle with the power of the .458 Win. Mag. cartridge from the lowly .45-70.
Needless to say, I overstepped my usual conservative attitude when purchasing rifle parts but I eventually came home with all of them (mac 'n cheese and Ramen noodles for weeks). New .25 caliber barrels, trigger work, stock work while waiting impatiently for a reamer to show up. I was smitten. Everything was all about the .25 caliber cartridges and bullets. When finished, the Krag helped me harvest Mule deer and antelope and even stepped up to assist in the Prairie Dog Wars. This is not a long range cartridge but a moderate range hunting cartridge. I used the Nosler 100 grain Partitions for my mainstay hunting load.
There are 4 makers at least currently manufacturing .30-40 Krag brass. It's in stock ready for purchase through your favorite suppliers.
Conversion dies are always expensive but you can use readily available common dies for sizing duties and just get the seater die for the wildcat Krag if you want to. Fireforming is required so plan on some inexpensive bullets for this task. Powders currently available for loads are:
Re-23
MRP
VVN-165
Enjoy the process!
It was during this exploration that I happened upon the .25 Krag Improved. The fact that it was rimmed did not impress me at the time since I was inundated with rimless cartridges and bolt action rifles. Then miraculously I discovered the Siamese Mauser actions. Strong, well build, intelligently designed right down to that sliding dust cover. So now the plan could begin to take shape with the exception of actually having my hands on one of those actions. But it wasn't long before an acquaintance mentioned that he had several Siamese actions in excellent shape. His plan was to fall head long into that ridiculous idea of building .45-70s on these marvelous actions.
Some idiotic gun writer had tried to sell this as great idea (he got paid) when all he managed to do was encourage thousands of wannabes to trash these superb actions in an attempt to build a rifle with the power of the .458 Win. Mag. cartridge from the lowly .45-70. Needless to say, I overstepped my usual conservative attitude when purchasing rifle parts but I eventually came home with all of them (mac 'n cheese and Ramen noodles for weeks
). New .25 caliber barrels, trigger work, stock work while waiting impatiently for a reamer to show up. I was smitten. Everything was all about the .25 caliber cartridges and bullets. When finished, the Krag helped me harvest Mule deer and antelope and even stepped up to assist in the Prairie Dog Wars. This is not a long range cartridge but a moderate range hunting cartridge. I used the Nosler 100 grain Partitions for my mainstay hunting load. There are 4 makers at least currently manufacturing .30-40 Krag brass. It's in stock ready for purchase through your favorite suppliers.
Conversion dies are always expensive but you can use readily available common dies for sizing duties and just get the seater die for the wildcat Krag if you want to. Fireforming is required so plan on some inexpensive bullets for this task. Powders currently available for loads are:
Re-23
MRP
VVN-165
Enjoy the process!
I purchased some new 30-40 Krag brass just last month. On sale as I recall. Most of it was pretty good, not Lapua good, just Ok Winchester brand good.
The 220 grain loads i've been shooting are taking a toll on my shoulder, thinking of going back to 168 gr or 180 gr.
For a 221+ year old military rifle, it still shoots very good. And I have to say I was very impressed when I ran my Teslong camera down the bore for the first time. They just don't make them like that anymore! Minimal fire cracking, beautiful throat and lands. A work of art from a time when that was more the norm than a special order.
The 220 grain loads i've been shooting are taking a toll on my shoulder, thinking of going back to 168 gr or 180 gr.
For a 221+ year old military rifle, it still shoots very good. And I have to say I was very impressed when I ran my Teslong camera down the bore for the first time. They just don't make them like that anymore! Minimal fire cracking, beautiful throat and lands. A work of art from a time when that was more the norm than a special order.
SBS
Gold $$ Contributor
Years ago and days gone by, back at the start of my career in gunsmithing, I was introduced to that epic tome by Donnelly; "The Handbook of Cartridge Conversion". I spent weeks pouring over every page multiple times until I could quote dimensions, pressures and the methodology of the conversions. I was captivated!
It was during this exploration that I happened upon the .25 Krag Improved. The fact that it was rimmed did not impress me at the time since I was inundated with rimless cartridges and bolt action rifles. Then miraculously I discovered the Siamese Mauser actions. Strong, well build, intelligently designed right down to that sliding dust cover. So now the plan could begin to take shape with the exception of actually having my hands on one of those actions. But it wasn't long before an acquaintance mentioned that he had several Siamese actions in excellent shape. His plan was to fall head long into that ridiculous idea of building .45-70s on these marvelous actions.
Needless to say, I overstepped my usual conservative attitude when purchasing rifle parts but I eventually came home with all of them (mac 'n cheese and Ramen noodles for weeks
How difficult was it to adapt the .25 Krag Imp. to the Siamese Mauser action? Any feed rail work? Change in follower?
There was some finessing which occurs when converting any action to a slightly different cartridge. In this situation though the extractor on the rim controlled the movement of the case when chambering and extracting. I didn't touch the rails except to smooth them slightly. Be mindful of stacking the rims properly when feeding the magazine.
Attachments
Old Navy
Gold $$ Contributor
TAJ45
Silver $$ Contributor
Re 25 Krag AI - I just consulted "Wildcat Cartridges " Vol II by Wolfe Publishing Co.
There are 3 full large pages of info including comparison of powder capacity, velocity and Ft lbs out to 600.
FWIW the 25 Krag AI has 5% less case capacity than the 25-06 & .270. 18% more than 100 gr .243. So it says.
There are 3 full large pages of info including comparison of powder capacity, velocity and Ft lbs out to 600.
FWIW the 25 Krag AI has 5% less case capacity than the 25-06 & .270. 18% more than 100 gr .243. So it says.
I built a 25 Krag Ackley in September 2019.
The fireforming takes an extra step or it splits
1) 44 kpsi 47.7 gr Re23 115 gr NBT....split
2) 25 kpsi 10 gr Red Dot 100 gr HNDY..........ok
3) 44 kpsi 47.7................ok
The Krag action is so wimpy I will not go above 44kpsi.
That brass could go twice that high in a better rifle.
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