25 Cal long range calibers

[kojaone]

.257 Roberts ?? Is it too old to count ?

Brass source

 

[Matt_3479]

I have never shot the 129 weight bullets in the 6.5 Creedmoor, but can’t help but wonder if it would be real close to the 25 caliber in Preformance.

The bc isn’t in the same realm when talking about 6.5 and 130gr bullets in comparison to the 25 cal 130 class bullets.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Have done the 25 gt, 25x47, 25 creed, 25-285, and 25 prc. The GT is a little small for the 130+ grain bullets. The 47 is working out very well as is the creed. The prc is the hot rod but shooting some impressive groups in hunting rifles. The bc on the heavies is good but its not like the big 30s or 33s. Your gonna need some velocity to make up for it. Shooting well past 1k with Any of the smaller ones will be challenging. Id be looking at the prc myself.

 

[Flouncer]

Brass source

7x57 Mauser, one of the oldest original modern cartridges. Daddy.

Nosler Custom 257 Roberts +P Brass Box of 50

Nosler Custom Brass was developed to complement their line of custom bullets. Each lot is weight-sorted to provide consistent measurements and...

www.midwayusa.com

Three brands of 7x57 are offered at Midway but none are in stock currently.

 

[jeffreybehr]

I'm old (81 in Feb.) and have been reloading for more than 60 years, but I'm not well experienced in this kind of discussion.. BUT...perhaps no one has addressed barrel life.

Seems to me that if you're building a long-range target rifle that will get perhaps a thousand or more rounds per year, barrel life is a major concern, unless you have MUCHO money to spend on replacing barrels...and I do not.. Even for the Savage barrel-nut system which does NOT require a gunsmith to machine and install a barrel, one will spend some $400 - $500 per barrel.. Hence, cartridges like the 25-65PRC are poor choices IMO.

But if you're building a hunting rifle that will shoot maybe a hundred rounds per year, the 25-65PRC is an excellent choice IMO...if you're NOT a recoil wimp like I am

This is the dilemma I tried to solve with the 25WSSM for 1000-yard BR shooting--enough powder capacity (45 to 50gn.)--to get high velocities with the heavies, but not as high powder charges (high-fifties) as the 284-based caliber.. As a result, I currently have TWO Savage 12BRs, one in 25WSSM and one that will be in 25-284.. The pic shows these two cartridges with the same Hornady 134.. The WSSM barrel has a much longer throat; if I fall in love with the 25-284, probably I'll have that barrel throated a little longer, as there is much bullet length in the powder space.

And in 25-calibers, I also have a 25Creed. barrel that I've not yet shot.

 

[std7mag]

What would be the brass source for 257 roberts?

Any 7X57 Mauser brass.

I'm running PPU (PVRI PARTIZAN) 7mm Mauser brass for my 257 Roberts and AI.
Simple run through a full length die and trim.

The AI obviously needs fire formed.

 

[lelongcarabine]

25PRC, 58 grains of N565 around 3040 FPS out of a 21.25” barrel with a 135 Berger. I am trying to find someone to change the headlamp to 25PRC. Arrowhead rifles posted a photo the other day with 25PRC headstamp. Looks like it was done with laser engraving.

Who did Your barrel fitting and chambering? Do You know what reamer was used?

 

[jeffreybehr]

What would be the brass source for 257 roberts?

7X57? Sure, but what's wrong with 6mm Remington? Just run it thru the 257Bob die and BINGO, you've got it! I magine there are far more choices for 6mm Remington than 7X57 brass.

 

[wildcatter]

7X57? Sure, but what's wrong with 6mm Remington? Just run it thru the 257Bob die and BINGO, you've got it! I magine there are far more choices for 6mm Remington than 7X57 brass.

There is a difference in Headspace for the 6mm Rem. It is shorter than the 257 or 7x57. Manson uses the 7x57 go gauge for their 257 Roberts reamer. I have 6mm Remington AI brass that was used in my last failure for a long range varmint gun. I tried using the 1-8 twist barrel,,, total flop!

The flop was in pushing max velocity, anything over 3100 to 3150 fps and groups opened up the faster you pushed them, all the way to 3450 fps. lighter bullets were the same. Yes I could group 1/2" but thats over 4" at 800 yards If I did everything right, this means if I'm perfect,,, which I am not, especially in the field I would misses imposible to make up for.

At 3050 to 3100 fps the 108 and 105's were capable of 1/4" even now and then .2" 5 shot groups, 2" moa and less at 800, only way to miss is human error then. Plus even at 3200 fps, the bullets would slow down to much at that range to open up or do anything but poke a hole thru ground hogs and larger, which means more crawl offs.

Lighter bullets were even harder to drive max speed and get the accuracy needed for over 800 yard use efficiently. For this reason I'll leave the 8 twist barrels for what they are intended for,,, punching paper, not varmints at long range!

Now to that brass. I'm building a proven 800 yard plus varmint rig, and that needs a 1-10 barrel. In my opinion PERFECT, in 6mm or 25 caliber for this particular purpose! Mine is a 257, Roberts Improved. I chose the Bob from past experience, and even though there are faster 1/4 bores,, they EAT BARRELS! my experience has shown the Bob is about as efficient as it gets, and even the 25/06 gives far less rounds in barrel life, and requires more powder to do the same job, but is much harder on barrels when used to get the same results. The bigger cases just make this even worse.

I tried the simple fl size thru my forrester die, and found about .013" less headspace was the results using previous fired 6mm AI brass. Best results were just using my K&M carbide neck mandrell I use to turn my necks, needed for the 257 Bob cases I'm forming out of 30/06 Lapua brass for Bob getting into body thickness of this brass at the new neck location mean turning my necks even for my No Turn Manson reamer.

I then tried some 7x57 AI brass I had fired in a previous build, It showed .002" to .004" shoulder set back. Probably why Manson uses the 7x57 go gauge with their .257 AI reamer.

I think most will find using different reamers from different manufacturers, there could be a slight difference in the reamers. But make no mistake, Ackley Improved chambers for the 7x57 or my preferred case the Lapua 8x57, will see that the 257 and 7x57 AI's are a bit longer on drawings than the 6mm AI.

This is all part of the fun building these calibers, but make no mistake, you have to be well aware of the dimensions of your individual chamber to do this successfully as well as safety! They are a Wildcatted chambering and should be treated as such. I have never been able to find a SAAMI spec drawing for these cartridges, and does not specify the exact headspace for them.

Good Luck, and I have had great luck with the 6mm Rem. AI, but my best ever for varmint past 800 yards, and loads that allow a bullet to open up at that range, never poked one past that here in the east, is the 257 Roberts AI!

 

[wildcatter]

I will add my case forming procedures, this is for the 6mm Rem and 257 Rob Improved. I Used the Lapua 8x57 necked down tom 30 cal in an adjusted 30 BR die, then 7x57 die, then stopped just short in the the 6MM remington die. Then a final Full length sizing in my Reading forming 6mm AI die, bottoming out the die against the shell head and mating the die and shellholder for the life of this caliber. Doing this allowed my smith to head space the barrel to this exact case, and give me an assured .002 to .003" fl bump die for the duration of the barrel.

Repeating this operation for the 257, but am using the 06 case and sizing to 7x57 the 257 Roberts using the Reading 257 Roberts Improved Body forming die.

But when my brass is formed I then load it with 14 grains of Bullseye pistol powder, and fill the cases with corn cob media and have used cream of wheat, but CC media is cheaper, plug the case mouth with beeswax or a toilet wax ring, will work. but thats it fire away, and adjust the bullseye accordingly to get sharp shoulder results. If your cases are fit properly they will be tight, and you will have Improved brass to start your new barrel with right from the first bullet thru the barrel.

8x57 Lapua to 6mm AI


30/06 to 257 AI

 

[std7mag]

7X57? Sure, but what's wrong with 6mm Remington? Just run it thru the 257Bob die and BINGO, you've got it! I magine there are far more choices for 6mm Remington than 7X57 brass.

I don't think so Tim!!


Nosler, Winchester, Remington, Federal, Norma, Sellier & Bellot, Fiocchi, PPU, Hornady and more make 7X57 Mauser brass.

All I could find for 6mm Rem is Remington, Hornady, Federal, and PPU.

 

[mullmann]

Who did Your barrel fitting and chambering? Do You know what reamer was used?

Mike Manzella, Manzella precision. He has his own reamer. He has done the 25PRC and now a 6PRC for me.

 

[ISS]

Lots of chatter here about barrel life. Silly imho, since you will probably spend more on gas/diesel if you get out very often.

When I go shooting Rockchucks here in SW Idaho it's about 100 miles to where I get enough shooting (12-20 Rockchucks) in a day to make the trip worth while. I take fly fishing gear and camp one night.

My Banshee got over 800 rounds of 110 Fowler bullets at 3700+ fps before I needed to shorten the barrel and rechamber. Another 500-600 rounds before the barrel needed replacement.

I will also bring a 223 or Dasher for shorter range targets. I do not ever let a barrel get too warm to hold the barrel in hand.

ISS

 

[wildcatter]

Lots of chatter here about barrel life. Silly imho, since you will probably spend more on gas/diesel if you get out very often.

When I go shooting Rockchucks here in SW Idaho it's about 100 miles to where I get enough shooting (12-20 Rockchucks) in a day to make the trip worth while. I take fly fishing gear and camp one night.

My Banshee got over 800 rounds of 110 Fowler bullets at 3700+ fps before I needed to shorten the barrel and rechamber. Another 500-600 rounds before the barrel needed replacement.

I will also bring a 223 or Dasher for shorter range targets. I do not ever let a barrel get too warm to hold the barrel in hand.

ISS

I agree, to a point! I don't think the faster choices are NOT relevant. The reason is,,, ACCURACY! Or at least the ability to easily find the accuracy needed or that I require for this rig. I find the 257 AI to be very easy over most in 25 caliber to find top accuracy with most bullets. The 257 AI and 250 AI are both well known for the improved performance, as well as superb accuracy in 25 cal as well as the ease in which it can be obtained. I chose the faster of the two.

Plus even if those overbore cases will shoot as good as the work finding it is a lot more time consuming, as well as waisted rounds thru the barrel, shortening life, eating components, and doing nothing better. I no nothing about the banshee, but maybe that's because it carries to much luggage for most to screw with?

 

[wildcatter]

WOO HOO,, found 8x57 Lapua, it was a pain, getting it out of Canada with the Canadian Postal strike and all, but after 3 weeks and a few days, I'm back in business. This is the best brass you can get for the Xx57 based Ackley cartridges. I'll wear this new barrel out with this 50 round from this one box of brass! I'll form it all for the 257 but this enough to wear out 2 barrels, and I will be "standing on them hard"!

Simply run this stuff in the Redding 257 AI body die, then thru the Forrester FL die, and should be ready to fire form. We'll see if a very light turn is needed for optimum shamber clearance but I think I have around .0015 - .002 clearance, enough to shoot a couple and see. I'll probably touch them up anyway just to assure they are perfect.

 

[wildcatter]

7X57? Sure, but what's wrong with 6mm Remington? Just run it thru the 257Bob die and BINGO, you've got it! I magine there are far more choices for 6mm Remington than 7X57 brass.

Sleeping I guess, but I finally thought about this. One thing I like about using the 7x57, or 257 Roberts cases over the 6mm Remington, is HEADSPACE. The 6mm AI is different than the 257 Roberts, or the 7x57 Mauser Ackley and uses a shorter headspace gauge.

The 6mm Remington is not as long in the face of the bolt, to the start of the shoulder as the 257 Roberts, then the 8x57 is even longer than either from the face of the bolt, to the start of the shoulder taper, making it ideal for making any of these cases.

Necking down a 257 to 6mm is much better than trying to neck up a 6mm to the 257. I've experimented with previously fired 6mm AI or standard 6mm Remington in my 257 AI die, and it falls short, needing a false shoulder, or jamming bullets into the lands to hold the case back against the bolt for good forming. This usually is less than ideal results.

Plus using 7x57 or 8x57 makes fireforming more consistently successful on the first firing. Then when you use my firerform method of not using a bullet, but rely on the case itself to hold the base of the case against the bolt face, it is much more reliable, and more perfect fireformingh.

This method also allows me to set my headspace to my FL die of choice. I will be using a previously fired case shot in another 257 Ackley Imp. I can verify I am getting some bump with my Body die bottomed out against the "dedicated Shellholder" I will use with this particular barrel. I now will use that case, I make 3 or 4 to be certain they are what I want, as they will be my headspace gauge.

I ain't real good at explaining this, if I were good at it, I would have been a teacher instead of an Ironworker. But if you compare these drawing, I think they will explain it better. The 6mm Remington is the same cartridge with slightly less dimensions than a 257, or 7x57, and all are smaller in dimensions than the 8x57 not just the neck diameter. Before it's brought up, YES, neck length changes when necking up or down. But all I care about is headspace for fireforming at the neck shoulder junction. This allows everything else to be perfect.

Lastly, until you try this using an 8x57 Lapua brass, I can't explain the quality or how much this case will take without failure. My bushed firing pin really lets this cartridge be all it can be in this case.

 

[ISS]

I usually haul 3-4 rifles on a 'Chuck hunt. 223 or 6PPC out to 300 yards, 6.5-284 out to 700 or so, and the new Banshee for as far as I can find them and range the distance. I have a 338 LAPUA as well. I am working on acquiring a Vortex 4000 to augment my Sig Kilo 5K.

You have to understand, out West we have lots of government owned ground where the distances are a mile or two or even more to shoot Rockchucks on.

 

[johnmyers]

Sleeping I guess, but I finally thought about this. One thing I like about using the 7x57, or 257 Roberts cases over the 6mm Remington, is HEADSPACE. The 6mm AI is different than the 257 Roberts, or the 7x57 Mauser Ackley and uses a shorter headspace gauge.

The 6mm Remington is not as long in the face of the bolt, to the start of the shoulder as the 257 Roberts, then the 8x57 is even longer than either from the face of the bolt, to the start of the shoulder taper, making it ideal for making any of these cases.

Necking down a 257 to 6mm is much better than trying to neck up a 6mm to the 257. I've experimented with previously fired 6mm AI or standard 6mm Remington in my 257 AI die, and it falls short, needing a false shoulder, or jamming bullets into the lands to hold the case back against the bolt for good forming. This usually is less than ideal results.

Plus using 7x57 or 8x57 makes fireforming more consistently successful on the first firing. Then when you use my firerform method of not using a bullet, but rely on the case itself to hold the base of the case against the bolt face, it is much more reliable, and more perfect fireformingh.

This method also allows me to set my headspace to my FL die of choice. I will be using a previously fired case shot in another 257 Ackley Imp. I can verify I am getting some bump with my Body die bottomed out against the "dedicated Shellholder" I will use with this particular barrel. I now will use that case, I make 3 or 4 to be certain they are what I want, as they will be my headspace gauge.

I ain't real good at explaining this, if I were good at it, I would have been a teacher instead of an Ironworker. But if you compare these drawing, I think they will explain it better. The 6mm Remington is the same cartridge with slightly less dimensions than a 257, or 7x57, and all are smaller in dimensions than the 8x57 not just the neck diameter. Before it's brought up, YES, neck length changes when necking up or down. But all I care about is headspace for fireforming at the neck shoulder junction. This allows everything else to be perfect.

Lastly, until you try this using an 8x57 Lapua brass, I can't explain the quality or how much this case will take without failure. My bushed firing pin really lets this cartridge be all it can be in this case.

I agree I use 8x57 Lapua to make my 6 Remington ai brass. Really makes nice brass

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

I’ve had several 25x284 barrels. I’ve shot both the Blackjack and Berger heavies… to be honest if I did it again I’d go 25x47 or if I wanted to haul ass I’d go to a SAUM or some other variety. The 284 has always been pretty slow

I am a bit surprised.

 

[choprzrul]

I'm waiting for 6.5-284 brass to show up again so I can neck it down to quarterbore. The 25-284 is a nice bump up in case capacity from the 25 Creedmoor....approaching 25-06 capacity.