25-06, what makes it so good?

[Kenny474]

This is something I have pondered for a long time, and I have never been able to figure out exactly what the real answer is. I have seen many rifles used on deer in many calibers, from small bores to big bore. I have seen many deer killed in my life, and there is one caliber that has stood out in my mind ever since the first time I saw it take a deer. It seems to have killing power completely out of proportion to it's bore diameter and bullet weight. I have witnessed it just make a deer's legs go limp and collapse, like someone just unplugged it. I have seen running deer hit by it, and just crumple up into a rolling ball, instantly dead. The things I have witnessed from this round just don't make sense to me, as I have seen rounds with larger bullets traveling just as fast fail to have the same effect on deer, even when hit perfectly.

The round is the 25-06, and I have wondered what makes it work so well on deer since I was a young boy, maybe 12 years old and I got to tag along on a hunting trip and witnessed it's power for the first time. The bullet seemed very small compared to the others that were used, yet it killed the deer almost instantly.

Now, a good bit older and with much more knowledge, I am still left wondering, how can a bullet that small be so devastating on deer?

So if anyone has any theories or information on why this round is so darn effective on the large New England whitetails that I have seen it take for nearly 20 years now, just put 'em down here so I can better understand what makes this round work so darn well.

Thanks to anyone that can help me with something that has made me wonder for so long.

Kenny

 

[Preacher]

It's just a perfect balance, same as with the 25/284.....

 

[JabaliHunter]

Its the .30-06 parent case!
Seriously, are there any bad calibres based on that cartridge? .25-06, .270, .280, .280AI, 8mm-06, .338-06, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62, .375-06... and probably some others too

 

[old leghumper]

I have always been a quarterbore fan - 250 Savage, 250 Savage AI, 25x39(for silhouette), 25-35, 25-06 and now a 25-06AI. Like the AI's because I hate trimming and the extra speed is just a bonus. Current 25-06AI I am using a Nosler 85BT, 63gr H4831sc in a 25" barrel and getting 3775fps with no pressure signs. Prairie dogs vaporize!

 

[boogershooter]

I have owned two, a Ruger #1V, and an older Remington varminter. Your right, they stained a few deer.

 

[M700]

Kenny, I don't think there's any magic to it, even though I'm a die-hard .25-06 user myself. It's equally lethal on mule deer out west.

The .25-06, and other similar smallish-bore hunting rifles are very good at dumping deer, usually without them running at all, or at least not more than a few steps. My son now uses my old 6mm Remington, and it has a long history of zapping game very dead, very quickly. Same results a buddy who hunts mule deer with his .243 Win, or another buddy's daughter who hunts them with a .25-06, or Grandpa's old .257 Weatherby.

All of them are mild shooting, easy for the average rifleman to use well. I put shot placement at the head of the list for quick kills. The .25-06 is easy to shoot well. Also the high velocity and good bullets, built for deer, not heavier game, tends to work real well.

Maybe it is magic...

Guy

 

[Kenny474]

I know it's not really magic, but it sure seems it sometimes.

And yes, the .257 Weatherby is another round with the same effect, and it's what my old man moved up to when he bought a new rifle. He still has the 25-06, but he knows the bore has many rounds through it and wants to save a bit of it's life, as he plans to go out west in a year or two for his "hunting trip of a lifetime" and wants to use his old faithful when he goes.

You are right though, most fast .25's are some of the best deer rounds going, with stopping power all out of proportion to their diameter and bullet weight. Some really fast 6's supposedly do as well, but I really don't have much experience with them.

I have always been a .30 or larger fan myself, mostly because my first rifle was a 30-06 740 Remington I inherited and I have just liked the big bores since I can remember. I also had a bad .243 experience, so I just naturally bypassed the .25, even though I had seen it do so well, and went big.

But with such devastating power from so little a round, there has to be something at work here I am not seeing. That is what I am looking for. I don't know if it's from the fast little bullet moving through a mass that is basically water and soft tissue causing more cavitation and hydrostatic shock that increases damage or what. But I would think a .30cal bullet weighing 150grs at 2750fps (at impact) would produce as much cavitation and hydrostatic shock as a .25cal bullet weighing 110grs at 3000fps (at impact). Maybe I am wrong and the bigger bullet slows down much faster after initial impact and creates less cavitation and hydrostatic shock?
I don't know for sure, but these are my theories. I am not a hydro-physicist either, nor am I a ballistician, so I am really only guessing at best.

Maybe it's like the Tootsie Pop thing, and the world may never know. ???

Kenny

 

[bozo699]

Kenny,
There is nothing magic about it, it just so happens every time you have seen one shot with a 25-06 it was a good kill shot (Thats All) I have shot a 25-06 for years and like it very well, as a matter of a fact I just replaced it this year with a 7mm-08. I have killed 25 or so deer and over 100 coyotes with my old 25-06 and many other vermin, as I have told you in other posts I have over 1200 rounds through her and I can still keep those 117 grain hornadys under 1/2" @ 100yds. But no magic involved just good shot placement. With that said there are three ways a gun kills
#1=shot placement....ie, what you have seen with the 25-06,because it is accurate and mild recoil which gives the shooter confidence.
#2= Horse-Power, nothing substitutes horse power ,hit a deer in the ass with a 460 WBY mag it will die, shot placement isn't necessary 8000 lbs of muzzle energy will take care of it.
#3= Speed, unadulterated ridiculous crazy SPEED the hydrostatic shock is off the scale and the wound channel is massive.

Now I am for option # 1 along with you, a nice shooting low recoil accurate 25-06 ;D you gotta love em. As I have heard you say many times Kenny Shot placement is everything No magic involved.
Wayne.

 

[2506]

Twenty years ago I started hunting with a friend in East NC where he control hunted a big farm and had to take 100 deer each year off for crop damage purposes. At the time all I had was a Rem. Sportsman 78 (Poor mans 700) in 30-06. I was shooting the 150 gr Nosler ballistic tip around 2900 fps. I would shoot a deer with good bullet placement and they would run off a ways more often than not and leave little or no blood trail. We were hunting over crop fields and just off the edges of these fields were cut over timber land that was as thick as a jungle. You about had to step on a deer to find it. My buddy used a 25-06 and urged me to get one. I was young and hard headed and thought I wanted nothing to do with those little caliber rifles. So by the next year I just had to have a 7mm Remington mag. I thought this will lay them down right now. I traded around and got a new Rem 700 SS BDL 7mm Rem mag. This rifle was extremely accurate with my hand loads. I started out using 139 gr Hornady bullets and AA3100 powder for around 3100 fps. First deer I shot was at 300 of my paces away. Hit it perfectly in the center of the front shoulder from an off hand shot, only shot I had. Probably the best shot I have ever made on a deer. The deer jumped into the woods like it had not been touched. I found it about 75 yards into the woods. Over two years I tried different bullets and after shooting 11 deer with that rifle and only dropping one in it's tracks I put it up for sale. We hunted a lot in the late afternoon and shot a lot of deer close to dark. I told people that I could not carry enough flashlight batteries to hunt with that 7 mag. I sold that 7 mag and took the prodding of my buddy and took the money and had my old Rem Sportsman 78 barreled with a SS 26" Shilen #6 in 25-06 and got a Bell and Carlson stock for it. I worked up a load 49 grs IMR 4350, CCI 250, Rem case, 117 Sierra Pro Hunter, 3000 fps that now 17 years later I still use. On the first deer I ever shot with this rifle and load, an 8 point buck at a little over 250 yards slightly quartering toward me. Placed the bullet on the left shoulder and it did a back flip hit the ground and kicked it's legs about 3 times and was dead I have been in love with the 25-06. I have killed hundreds (lost count years ago) of deer with that rifle and 99.9% of them have dropped in their tracks and what didn't did not go 50 yards at the most. I have killed deer from point blank out to a little over 500 yards with this rifle and another Rem 700 BLD 25-06 that is a little lighter for walking. I have had many that dropped straight down with their legs folded under them and they were so dead when they hit the ground they did not even fall over. And no I can't explain the killing ability of the 25-06 and stopped trying to explain it years ago. I just enjoy the benefits from it. Deer are laying right where you shoot them. ;D

 

[Kenny474]

Wayne,
I agree shot placement is important, as we both agree. And yes, many of the shots I have seen on deer with a 25-06 have been very well placed, as my father is a good shot off-hand and is very careful to only take good shots on deer. Partly because he is color blind and can't follow a blood trail to track one if he wounds it. He is a very ethical hunter as well, as I am from him constantly telling me the importance of hunter's ethics and that you must respect the animals you kill.

I have also experienced the benefit of big horsepower as well. As you know, I have a 500S&W Handi Rifle that I use for close range deer hunting, and it is one of the few rifles I have seen that are as effective as the 25-06. Though I am throwing a bullet with twice the diameter and three to five times the weight as well. When you hit a deer with a sledgehammer at 1800fps, they go down hard. But it's a different kind of "effective", and the extreme size and weight is doing the work instead of the (insert theory here) that happens with the 25-06.

But, as 2506 has stated as well, I have made shots that were just as good with my 30-06 and had the deer run a ways, where as that rarely happens with the 25-06, at least from what I have seen. The 30-06 is still a great round, and I will never say otherwise. But it still still doesn't have that DEAD ON IMPACT quality that the 25-06 seems to have.

Like I have said many times now, it really seems that there is something at work here that is deeper than just good shot placement or "normal" ballistics or killing power or whatever. I am not the first person to see this or to ask this question, so I know it's not just me. I really think there is something deeper to this, and I just hope to figure it out at some point.

Maybe I will buy, or try to make if possible, one of those bullet test tubes and then compare the 25-06 to the other rounds I have available and compare results. I wonder if it will give me any decent info? Does anyone have any experience with the "Bullet Test Tube"? Do they work well? I am willing to spend a little dough to try and find an answer to my question, but don't want to waste my money if it's not going to help me either.

I am a very curious person, and I like to learn new things and gain any knowledge possible. I just want to try to see if there is something at work here, like cavitation and hydrostatic shock, or if it's really just shot placement and a bit of luck.

 

[bozo699]

Well Kenny-2506 you guy's must have magic guns or them huge deer with fangs or something I don't know? I have packed a 25-06 for years and am a great advocate of them, not knocking them @ all but I have killed deer from .22 rimfire to 460 wby mags and dead is dead. I have never found that the 2506 killed better than a .243 or a .300wm In the state of Washington we just have small thin skinned mule deer and white tail deer that on a real quiet day I can almost yell loud enough to kill one ;D just kidding of course but I don't seem to have any trouble killing them with whatever cal. I choose to use, but if you two guys are confident with a 2506 than more power to you As far as a 7mm rem mag my dad sighted his #70 in in 1969 or 1970 and as far as I know has never checked it since, doesn't target practice EVER with it and has completely shot the barrel out of it, so that is a lot of dead somethings and I rarely see him shoot more than once I will stick with my 7-08 and my magical 2506.
Wayne.

 

[1000yardstare]

Shot one deer with my .25-06 Rem stainless SPS, 100 gr Nosler BT, RL19, 3300 fps, 200 yds. Deer disappeared so fast thought I had missed but my buddy said he heard the "whock" of the hit. Walked to the spot and found deer, never moved out of its tracks. Entrance hole just behind shoulder. Lot of meat damage on the off side. Won`t use BTs at that velocity on deer again. But spectacular kill.

My local gun shop keeps .25-06 rifles and ammo in stock for the Mohawks on the nearby Reserve. Their preferred caliber. They have been here for 10,000 years compared to our 500 and must know a thing or two about effective hunting tools. They use a tougher, heavier bullet for minimum meat damage.

 

[M700]

It's funny - at "deer camp" my son and I carry the two smallest rifles, with his 6mm Rem and my .25-06, yet our deer never go anywhere except down upon being hit. Everyone else hunts with a .270, .30-06 (most common) and one fellow with a .350 Rem mag. Nothing kills the mule deer quicker than the little rifles.

But - I've also shot deer with a traditional .50 muzzle loader, .45/70, etc, and have also gotten those highly desired one-shot drops.

Regards, Guy

 

[Kenny474]

Guy,
That's what I'm trying to get at. It really has seemed like you need to go big, like .45cal, to get the same consistent "one shot drop" that you get with the 25-06. I only get that kind of consistency from my 45/70, .500S&W and my .50cal BP. The 30-06 will do it as well, but they tend to run a bit about 60% of the time, maybe 15-20 yards, where as the 25-06 makes them die where they stood 95% of the time.

Maybe it is just that I have seen a lot of good 25-06 shots? Or maybe that .25cal bullet is so small the deer doesn't feel it has been hit so it doesn't get scared and run?

I don't know. Either way, the 25-06 IS one of the best choices you can make to bring on a deer hunt. I don't think anyone will argue with that.

Kenny

 

[Kenny474]

1000yardstare, that is a good story. It's always good when they drop that fast.

Kenny

 

[bozo699]

Kenny,
you know what I like about this whole thing?......... we can say what we have to say, goof off a little, be a little serious and still have a lot of fun ;D you can't do that on all the forums ? I really do like the 2506 a lot and I think it is a awesome deer round and long range varmint round. I still don't think there is anything magical about it :-\ but I sure like it.
Wayne.

 

[SS427]

I say the same thing about the .270 Win. My brother-in-law makes that claim about the .30-06 and leaves his .25-06 at home. Two of the guys I hunt with say the 6mm Rem and the .308 Win are the magical caliber. Hell, I've read several pages of posts from people who make a similar claim about the .223 Rem.

Markmanship is what makes any caliber magical, because for the most part all of the calibers that shoot a decent load of lead at high velocity can do what you describe.

 

[dmg264]

We have a guy that hunts with us that has lost just as many deer with his 25-06 as he does with any other gun that he shoots ???.

High velocity rounds usually do produce more dramatic bang/flop shots and the 25-06 has got some speed. Bullet design and construction plays a big part in the end result also. But in the end its all about shot placement.

 

[necchi]

Markmanship is what makes any caliber magical, because for the most part all of the calibers that shoot a decent load of lead at high velocity can do what you describe.

That, says it all Otter. Thank you.

For all the good that's been said here about the round I guess it's one I won't own.
I might be silly but I've felt for years if your going to use a 30-06 case it might as well be a 30-06, That goes for the 270, the 280 and the others.
I know a venerable old Gent in his 80's that started loading long before many members here where born. He won a 25-06 at a raffle, a Weatherby I believe, and did nothing but tell how worthless the round was! He didn't mix words much, just came right out with what ever he ment. After he saw the results on some yote type varmints he never used it on anything bigger.
Will it work on WT size game ? Sure, if the shooter can place the round proper. Might be fun to have one as a novelty, but as a single all around use gun, I'd choose another.
That's my two cents and worth everything you paid.

 

[bozo699]

Thats funny,

That's my two cents and worth everything you paid.