.243 Win vs. 6mmBR's: Newbie

[thefish]

Just joined, my first post. Have been reloading for HG and SG for about 2 or 3 years. Just starting to appreciate precision loading for varmints and accuracy in the last year. I have a simple question:

In a nutshell, (unless someone wants to elaborate) what does the 6mmBR and all its multiple variations do that so eclipses what my good old .243 Winchester does? More specifically, my .243 Win that I load for doggin', targets, etc. I know the cases are structured differently, etc., but what's so great about it that I should ponder getting a gun in this caliber?

Thanks in advance, this seems like a great site with a great forum.

 

[cmillard]

just look at all the matches that have been won with this round--that should paint the picture for you. Read on in this site, and you will find a wealth of info on the 6BR.

 

[LWolken]

Mainly that a 6mmbr burns alot less powder and heats a barrel alot less than the 243 or variant. It heats up very similar to a 223 steady fire can be shot all day. I take one 6mmbr and two 243 ack's to rotate around. The 6mmbr is hard to beat if you ask me. You won't get the carnage with the 6br but it holds accuracy like no other. I like my 243's for know distance shots out to 500yds but when you step out to 800-1000 I prefer the 6br because it might take 15rds to get a hit and the recoil allows me to spot better. At medium ranges I find I'm on the dial more with the br than my 243's. I shoot 105gr amaxes out both but I also take a couple hundred 70-75gr bullets for the 243's to lay down the law. My shooting buddies, one of which is our gun smith had two 6br's and a 300wsm rechambered one of the br's to 6-284. My other friend is building a 6-250 to bring along with his 6br. My brother in law brought some ar's, 22-250 VSSFII and a Sako 338 Lapua and after his first trip he had a 6br built and began reloading. 6br is the go to gun the others are just for fun.

Lance

 

[thefish]

Thank you both. Could I trouble you to direct me towards an article or two that would expand further on what you said?
Aside from what it can do at and beyond 600 yds in competition and doggin', is there any substantial advantage over the .243 Win inside of 500 yds?
Also, do people often use this cartridge/gun family of 6mmBR's for hunting of any small to medium game such as deer, for example the way you would use a .243 Winchester or does it turn out that the guns' weight, etc., are just not practical for that purpose?

Thanks again.

 

[jr600yd]

1) Recoil
2) Barrel life
3) cost to reload
4) Accuracy

Good shooting
Jim

 

[thefish]

Thanks again. But in regard to hunting medium sized game, a person would probably pick another similar cartridge, e.g., the .243 Win, right? The reason is that the cartridge itself is fine, but the guns are just not what you would want to take into the woods or fields with you...?

RIF

 

[cmillard]

just wander around this sight a little and you will find a wealth of information on the 6br. there is also a lot of info on the improved variants of this round. also, check out the guns of the week archive--read every one of them, you will gain a ton of info on what shooters are shooting. there is also a rifle that is chambered in .243 AI. if you want a barrel burner, this is the one to pick.

 

[jerrschmitt]

I've been shooting the .243 since around 1959. I bought my first 6BR last year and I sold my .243. For Prairie Dog shooting the 6BR is much better because I shoot 30 grains of powder insted of 46 grains. That means less barrel wear, less cost and less heat. I'm good out to 1000 yards. I took it deer hunting this year but didn't get a shot so I can't tell you how great it was, but I doubt that a deer would be able to tell you which round took out his heart.

 

[thefish]

I will look at the articles. But just to get me started, how does the 6mmBR do all that with a smaller powder charge....just better burning conditions, something about the shoulder angle, things like that? You know, something intrinsic to the geometry of the case, size of bullet, etc.?

 

[markr]

It's called efficiency. The 6br uses small rifle primers, smaller flash hole and at top velocities is a high intensity cartridge. You can buy top quality (Lapua) brass ready to fire and you will generally get more reloadings per piece of brass It is quieter and has less recoil. The barrel will last considerably longer. Other than that, not much different.
Mark

 

[thefish]

So then...what don't I see about the obvious next question: Why don't some of the mainstream gun companies and some of the quality ammo companies come out with a gun that shoots 6mmBR !?! If it's that good for target, competition, varmint, all the things you guys say this cartridge excells in; why wouldn't say Savage and Hornady team up and deliver something? After all, look at all the other crap that gets made. Every few months, there is some miniscule variant of a cartridge that gets released to fill a non-existing niche. Surely there are people out there that would appreciate accuracy, low recoil, long barrel life, etc., even if they don't reload.

I just don't get it. Any thoughts, gentlemen?
Thanks. I'm glad I found this forum.

 

[12man]

Remington chamberd their 40x in the 6BR, and still does thru the custom shop. Savage is currently chambering theit rifles in 6BR & I am sure I missed a few companies. The only factory ammo is from LAPUA & can't get it in my neck of the woods. Handloads are awesome in this caliber, and can be tailor fit to the gun. I am sure as previously posted it will do all that is needed to antelope & whitetail. Lots of varmints DO NOT like this round and neither do the TARGETS

 

[Exercion]

Main reason I think you don't see more factory rifles in it is the American disease of "Magnumitis". I am not saying it in a derogatory way, just that velocity and big numbers sell, and since the rifle and ammo guys are in the business to sell, they follow the trend. There are many very good and very effective cartridges out there that never caught on in the US, it's just one of the vagaries of markets.

Eric

 

[markr]

So then...what don't I see about the obvious next question: Why don't some of the mainstream gun companies and some of the quality ammo companies come out with a gun that shoots 6mmBR !?! If it's that good for target, competition, varmint, all the things you guys say this cartridge excells in; why wouldn't say Savage and Hornady team up and deliver something? After all, look at all the other crap that gets made. Every few months, there is some miniscule variant of a cartridge that gets released to fill a non-existing niche. Surely there are people out there that would appreciate accuracy, low recoil, long barrel life, etc., even if they don't reload.

I just don't get it. Any thoughts, gentlemen?
Thanks. I'm glad I found this forum.

Number one, for the mainstream manufacturers, target...and I mean real target rifles and not those that are just so named, make up a very small percentage of their production and little if any of their profit. Making money is their main objective...period!
Secondly, to make a true target rifle requires different and specialized machinery, and qualified labor that really cares about quality and pride in their workmanship...real target rifles are labor intensive. Craftsmen in this league are few and far between and those that really have a passion to do the job to the best of their ability each and everytime they do a job...are even harder to come by, and even more costly!
Lastly, target rifles are a very personal item to each individual shooter and almost no two are exactly alike...taking these out of the "production" class of rifles.
Yes, Remington or Winchester or Browning or Howa could make production "target rifles", but they would not perform like the truely custom rifles that are shot in competition and the ammunition would be bastardized to make a one round that does everything. Production tolerances would force this to be so.
Generally speaking, target rifles shoot their very best with near maximum loads, and find their best accuracy within "velocity nodes" and loaded a certain way. Such as the brass has been trimmed, primer pockets uniformed and flash holes, a Gentner 6mm 65 grain HPBT custom bullet may provide it's best accuracy in a particular rifle at 3200 to 3250 fps with the bullet seated .020 into the lands with .002 neck pressure on the bullet...if you're shooting at 72 deg F, 80% relative humidity and 29.95 barometric pressure. Factory loads could not accomodate such structured requirements...and neither can most handloaders, without proper training and experience.
Just a few of the whys and differences between an 1/8th minute of accuracy rifle and one that will honestly shoot 1/2 MOA on a regular basis.
Most people cannot or would not afford either the time and patience necessary to do this or the money that is required to do so.

Mark

 

[DCRYDER]

It seems to me you have the impression that all 6br's are 15+lb, 28" barreled, 4" flat-stocked benchrest or prarie dog guns. I have a 14lb 40x, a 10lb rebarreled VSSF, and just got my barrel today to build a 8lb sporter rifle. It will not be my go to deer rifle, but neither would a 243 (280AI). But with a 85gr Barnes TSX i wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer inside of 400yds.

To me the 6br will do anything a 243 will with less powder, less barrel wear, less fouling, less recoil, and more accuracy. Whats not to like about that.

 

[MarkS]

thefish,

The 6BR and it's IMP are the most accurate round made. They will take any round made. You can take a 6BR 8TW barrel shooting 105 VLD's and shoot aggs at 100 yds, 600 yds, and 1000 yds, run take any round out there. They hold all but one of the IBS 600 yds records. The PPC may be king at 100 and 200, but the 6BR will clean they clocks at 300yds +.

I have one shot kills on VA Groundhog past 600yds with 70 gr Blitzkings. A friend has kill at 900 yds with 70gr on PD and 1400 yds with 115gr bullets.

If I could only have one rifle it would be a 6BR. Get one as soon as you can.

The 243 is a great round, but you need a 6BR. I don't know why Remington does not make it's own round in a production rifle ,Savage makes a great one.


Mark Schronce

 

[thefish]

Wow. Pretty impressive. Well made points, all. I had no idea that the 6mmBR was so different. Much appreciation to all who took time to respond.

Yes, DCRYDER, I did have the impression that we were talking about huge, unwieldy guns even "impractical" guns. I will do the legwork and come back when I know enough to ask focused and specific questions about what people use b4 buying stuff. From the looks of things, this is going to melt my VISA card though...if you buy/build a gun like this, you need good glass to sit on top.

Hey, MarkS, BTW, when you said, "The 6BR and it's IMP..." you meant the 6mmBR and all of its variations, right?
So thanks again, guyz, for taking the time to answer. I've got a good handle on where to start and more importantly, why.
RIF

 

[fdshuster]

RIF: Nothing really "wrong" with the 243 Winchester, it's basically a good round, if it weren't, it would have fallen by the wayside a long time ago. But, for someone who does a lot of shooting, ( I'm talking approx 4K rds. a year), barrel life will be a major consideration. I burned out a Douglas CM and a Shilen SS each around 1450 rds., to the point the barrels were worthless. The Shilen barreled rifle was sold, with the buyer being informed that the barrel was due for replacement. Actually the accuracy level of both began to go downhill at around 1K rds., and also included heavier copper fouling & more cleaning time required. Of my four 6mmBR chamberings, the highest round count barrel has 1430 rds. fired, and as seen "up close and personal" with my "Hawkeye" borescope is still free of any signs of firecracking in the throat. Needless to say the accuracy level of my 6BR's is far above what I was ever able to do with the 243's. And, as Mark said, if I could only have one rifle, it would be one of my 6BR's, probably the 1-8 twist, .272" no-turn neck. I firmly believe that had high quality Lapua brass been available for the 6BR, early in the program, it would be right up there now, competing with the very excellent 6ppc, another fine round: have one of those. Cooper, and a few others are also chambering in 6BR, in addition to the fine Savages. If the other "big names" fail to jump on the band wagon, they will be left even further behind.

 

[DCRYDER]

the long necks are to me the real upside of the 6br. you have enough length to partial necksize brass and still keep most bullets in front of donuts that might be present. and most people get a lot more velocity of them that are listed as max in most reloading data. sierra lists 65gr bullet at 3300fps out of a 26" barrel max load. my vssf started out at 23" and got 3425fps (with sierra max load of 31.5gr Benchmark powder) with no excessive pressure signs at all and with bullet jammed .005". i then cut the barrel to 18" and still get 3300fps with the 65's and get 2950 out of 85gr BTHP's. seems to me i dont gain much with a barrel over 22" whereas a 243 needs 26" or more to get full velocity, another plus for the BR in my eyes.

My theory is that in a gun with a 22" or shorter barrel that velocities between 6br and 243 would be very close, someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Mikem]

Factory made 6BRs? I have never seen two 6BRs that were even close to being the same, there are just to may thing that can, and are changed to suit the owner, maybe that's why most are custom made, or better yet built by the owner himself.
And that's half the fun. The only prerequisite is that you reload, but that's fun also.
If you like hitting what your aiming at, have a 6BR built or buy a Savage action and build it your self, there's a lot of satisfaction is doing that.
The 243 and 6BR are not in competition with each other, there not even in the same class.
Mike.