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230 atips

I'm running a 300 Norma Alex wheeler improved. Last season I was shooting 230 atips at 3195 and maybe would loose 1 out of 50 but was a super accurate load at distance. Today went back after taking the whole gun apart for a thorough cleaning and inspection. Same load same varified speeds but these things were just blowing up 80% of the time. My twist is 8.5
When running the 245 bergers at 3000 I had no issue same as last season. Any thoughts or recommendations?
Calculated rpm is 270,000 and stability factor of 1.73
 
I'm running a 300 Norma Alex wheeler improved. Last season I was shooting 230 atips at 3195 and maybe would loose 1 out of 50 but was a super accurate load at distance. Today went back after taking the whole gun apart for a thorough cleaning and inspection. Same load same varified speeds but these things were just blowing up 80% of the time. My twist is 8.5
When running the 245 bergers at 3000 I had no issue same as last season. Any thoughts or recommendations?
Calculated rpm is 270,000 and stability factor of 1.73
I had good luck with 230 atip at 2600 fps in 30-284. At 230,000 you are pushing it pretty hard with jacketed bullets. See Attachment. I helped a fellow shooting a .375 and bearing surface was huge. Once bearing speed gets at a certain point, everything is heating up due to friction and we solved the issue with solid Cutting Edge bullets. Just my 2 cents! Certain jacketed bullets handle the heat a bit better. In graph you will see red numbers and does not mean you can't go there, but could see failures.
 

Attachments

I'm running a 300 Norma Alex wheeler improved. Last season I was shooting 230 atips at 3195 and maybe would loose 1 out of 50 but was a super accurate load at distance. Today went back after taking the whole gun apart for a thorough cleaning and inspection. Same load same varified speeds but these things were just blowing up 80% of the time. My twist is 8.5
When running the 245 bergers at 3000 I had no issue same as last season. Any thoughts or recommendations?
Calculated rpm is 270,000 and stability factor of 1.73
Yeah Hornadys have thin jackets
I found pretty much when going over 3000 fps you risk blowing them up
I once tried 110 6mm A-tips, ....... only 7/10 made it to target
A-max's ??? Fugget about it
Look for comet tails (curved streaks) around the perimeter of your bullet holes on your targets, this will prove the jacket is coming apart in flight.
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Berger Hunting bullets also have thin jackets and will blow up the same way
I talked to Berger about this when I ran into the problem of blowing up half my Bergers
, they admit it, but will word it as.....
"you are pushing the bullets past their designed limitations"
mmm, yeah thanks, good politician type response
So I avoid Hornadys altogether for anything accuracy or long range which means
they are only good for hearing the gun go Bang , fireforming etc
the only hornady I might use at all is for 223 stuff
Or slow 6.5 stuff like .260 Rem.
If others have good luck with hornadys, it is because they are driving them at 2800 fps and slower
they Might survive at 3000 fps, / might not, but I am convinced they are being compromised still at this speed even if they do make it to target. it is borderline, and taking a gamble.
---
I know their price is attractive for the abilities but
if you are blowing up half of them, are you really saving money or instead actually
wasting your time and money trying to get them to work?
not worth the $10 savings per 100
---
Hornadys do not provide enough return on investment
Just a simple fact
---
Use Sierra's with tougher jackets than even Berger
or Berger "Target" Bullets
 
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I'm running a 300 Norma Alex wheeler improved. Last season I was shooting 230 atips at 3195 and maybe would loose 1 out of 50 but was a super accurate load at distance. Today went back after taking the whole gun apart for a thorough cleaning and inspection. Same load same varified speeds but these things were just blowing up 80% of the time. My twist is 8.5
When running the 245 bergers at 3000 I had no issue same as last season. Any thoughts or recommendations?
Calculated rpm is 270,000 and stability factor of 1.73
Oh that’s a familiar story!
The 147eld, the 180ELD, the 190 a tip, the 285ELD, had issues with all of them doing voodoo stuff.
Don’t spin them hard.
If you want that shoot alternatives.
I’d especially look at the 245 Berger, you’re coasting at 2900-3000, it’s almost cheating at a mile and if conditions get ugly you’re ammo won’t care.
 
I'm running a 300 Norma Alex wheeler improved. Last season I was shooting 230 atips at 3195 and maybe would loose 1 out of 50 but was a super accurate load at distance. Today went back after taking the whole gun apart for a thorough cleaning and inspection. Same load same varified speeds but these things were just blowing up 80% of the time. My twist is 8.5
When running the 245 bergers at 3000 I had no issue same as last season. Any thoughts or recommendations?
Calculated rpm is 270,000 and stability factor of 1.73
How many rounds on the barrel and how long is it?

About 10 years ago, I was testing the cost/benefits of overbore ratio and pressure for ELR cartridges. I was using the 338 Lapua case as the parent because it was known for consistent quality and ability to handle pressure. The 338 Lapua was also a poster child for improving because it picks up significant capacity. I ran the overbore ratio up by improving cases and necking down. None of them were intended to be a final solution, just provide the information for a better choice.

I started with a straight neck down 7/338L. It's capacity was pretty close to a 7/300Norma. That went pretty well so I did 30/338LI, then 7/338LI. I was using modified Stevens 200 actions in XLR chassis as mules to keep costs low enough to run a few of them at a time. The baseline they were compared to was a 7/270wsm set up the same way.

The 7/338LI had a spectacular run on a 32"x36" 2300 yard target with about 75 rounds on the barrel. Frustration started soon after. Vertical spread opened up and nocalls increased. I was shooting with 3 others and one of them happened to be off his scope during a string of nocalls. He suggested the bullets were bursting. They were. I started videoing strings on a 1200 yard target where the lighting was often right to catch trace.

Poof Video

The bullets were Berger 195 EOL at 3300 fps from a 32" barrel. The barrel had 250 rounds through it. Checking the 7/338L showed it was doing it as well at 450 rounds.

I did that for a couple years and came away with the following perspectives:

1 - Bullets will put up with a lot of nonsense with a fresh barrel
2 - Throat wear, pressure and rpm all contribute to bullet bursts.
3 - There were several stages of bullet performance deterioration. Working backwards from the obvious:
3.1 - Bullet bursts early in a string, multiple bursts per string.
3.2 - Bullet bursts late in later strings
3.3 - Wounded ducks. The trace would show a distinct kink and the impact would be at a random point inexplicably outside the rest of the group. Sometimes the video would pick up the core and jacket separating.
3.4 - Miserable BC consistency shown by much larger vertical dispersion that really starts to show up by a mile.
3.5 - Degraded BC consistency. Barrel is still useful inside a mile if competition didn't demand extreme levels of precision.
3.6 - The trued firing solutions will show the BC trending downward.
4 - By the time the barrel bursts its first bullet, it hasn't been much use beyond a mile for a while.
5 - Boutique brass will take more pressure for multiple firings than gives the best performance from jacketed bullets. Even with a fresh barrel.
6 - Depending on your cleaning process, the velocity of a given load may increase over the entire useful life of the barrel. Alternatively, adding abrasives to the cleaning process can control this. The problem is the BC consistency goes away even faster.

This is smash and grab science at best. Nothing was proved. I'll chamber a fresh barrel and waste the last 100 rounds of a 500 round barrel before I waste another 100 rounds of ammunition. Do the math.
 
Where all that landed was I shoot the 230 and 250 ATips from a CIP 300 Lapua. From a 1:8 32" barrel, 2950 for the 250s, 3100 for the 230s. With 10 shot strings, the barrels are pretty done at 500 rounds. They'll still shoot 1/2 MOAish groups, but the vertical is gone beyond 2K yards.

Before the ATips, I shot a lot of the 230 Hybrids. I intend to test the 245s.

I blew up everybody's bullets during that testing. Some will put up with more for longer, but by the time first one pops, changing the bullet might not be the best course of action.
 

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