223 with some distance
- Thread starter BULLET 05
- Start date
Mine has a .100+ freebore with 75 grain amaxs seated into the lands. I removed the rear mag box spacer, took a 308 follower and narrowed it to freely slide up/down, also made minor adjustments to the top surface to keep brass under feed rails. Cycles like a dream and bullets are seated very long. Also have plenty of room to go longer if needed.
I had an ai that would run 3230fps with varget 28". That was years ago and Im still using that brass today! Prob 40+ loadings on them
Heaviest bullet I can use in my 1 in 9 Savage is the 69 SMK. Anything heavier doesn't fly well.
stacy
2 TIMOTHY 2 VERSE 15
WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT WAS GOOD STUFF !I had an ai that would run 3230fps with varget 28". That was years ago and Im still using that brass today! Prob 40+ loadings on them
we have a Mossberg MVP .223 and it shoots 70gr bergers into one hole @100yds. it also holds range record if not a hard wind. record 5 shots into 4.89in @ 925yds and no one has beat this gun yet!! using varget powder.
Longtrain
Gold $$ Contributor
Way back, when FClass was shot on the LR target, I shot my 223 with 75 AMX's and a bunch of N550 that got me over 3100 FPS. Very accurate, 100 yard bench test made groups in the 1's.
So, on the LR target, I shot it at a 8,9,1K Palma match which allowed FClassers, only 2 targets back then, the rest Palma irons. Shot a 447/450, in a virtual NO wind day. Thought I had the game licked at that point, then the next year the new smaller F Class target came out along with the wind. Barely made over the 400's...409,412 if I recall. Went and got a 308, much happier, it was pointed out to me at one of those match's, "only a very brave man shoots a 223 at 1000 yards"
IMO even with 90's and a long barrel, you are just matching, if that, the 308 ballistics for a 155, go heavier and the 223 will never match it.
Not to knock the 223, but understand what it is, and live in those limitations and you'll be fine. But, the wind at 1K will blow it all over the place. Been there, done that...
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
The ballistics of the 90 VLD at ~2850 fps MV are a very close match to the 185 Juggernaut at about 2750 fps. They are way ahead of a typical 155 gr .308 bullet. Here are some windage predictions at 1000 yd for a full value 10 mph wind rom JBM Ballistics:
90 VLD @ 2850 fps - 7.2 MOA
185 Jug @ 2750 fps - 7.3 MOA
155 SMK (2156) @ 3000 fps = 8.2 MOA
I don't shoot 155s, but I regularly shoot both 185s and 90s in F-TR and they behave in the wind exactly as their ballistic coefficients suggest they should behave. The 90s will have a little more vertical dispersion largely because it's almost impossible to reproducibly generate nearly as low ES/SD values with a .223 load as with a .308 due to the smaller case volume. The 90 VLDs are still at a significant disadvantage against 200+ gr .308 bullets, no doubts there, but they can more than hold their own against those in the ~185 gr category. I'm not advocating for or against shooting a .223 w 90 VLDS at 1000 yd, just pointing out how they stack up in terms of ballistics relative to various bullet weight categories in .308s.
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Longtrain
Gold $$ Contributor
gstaylorg:
Interesting information on the 90 VLD's, I based my info in speaking to shooters that tried 90's at 1K, they certainly were not as successful as you. They felt that in their opinion any legit match 308 round would out perform the 90's. But, based on your numbers, they may have not been able to match your ballistic performance. If you care to share your load info, I would be interested. Either here or via a PM, thanks.
Interesting information on the 90 VLD's, I based my info in speaking to shooters that tried 90's at 1K, they certainly were not as successful as you. They felt that in their opinion any legit match 308 round would out perform the 90's. But, based on your numbers, they may have not been able to match your ballistic performance. If you care to share your load info, I would be interested. Either here or via a PM, thanks.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
This is taken directly from another thread in which I was writing about using the .223/90s in F-TR. There is a whole bunch of info regarding using the 90s if you look back through the pages of the "Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s" forum. I didn't list specific powder weights because they are not critical and can change significantly Lot to Lot. Somewhere in the upper 23 to 24 gr range for H4895 and around middle 24 gr range for Varget is about where you'll need to be. The real key is reaching the listed velocity ranges for either Varget (~2820 fps) or H4895 (~2850 fps) out of a 30" barrel, however much powder that takes in your setup.
"The short version is, you want the 223 Rem ISSF reamer from PTG that has 0.169" freebore. Your COAL will [roughly] be in the 2.630" to 2.650" range. Using a 30" 7-twist barrel ( a 6.5-twist might be even a tick better, but not absolutely necessary), shoot for approximately 2815-2825 fps with Varget and Lapua brass, 2840-2850 fps with H4895 and Lapua brass. Brass life with Varget is pretty reasonable. Brass life with H4895 will be 3-4 firings. The real key is seating depth. Most find about .010" into the lands is optimal. A few have found about .005" off the lands (fairly close to touching) works best, and the fewest of the few (including myself) are jumping them about .015" to .020". So there you have the chamber, target velocity ranges with two commonly-used powders, and the most likely seating depth regions to test. Short of having someone else load and test them, it doesn't get much easier than that."
"The short version is, you want the 223 Rem ISSF reamer from PTG that has 0.169" freebore. Your COAL will [roughly] be in the 2.630" to 2.650" range. Using a 30" 7-twist barrel ( a 6.5-twist might be even a tick better, but not absolutely necessary), shoot for approximately 2815-2825 fps with Varget and Lapua brass, 2840-2850 fps with H4895 and Lapua brass. Brass life with Varget is pretty reasonable. Brass life with H4895 will be 3-4 firings. The real key is seating depth. Most find about .010" into the lands is optimal. A few have found about .005" off the lands (fairly close to touching) works best, and the fewest of the few (including myself) are jumping them about .015" to .020". So there you have the chamber, target velocity ranges with two commonly-used powders, and the most likely seating depth regions to test. Short of having someone else load and test them, it doesn't get much easier than that."
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