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223 Remington: What's Wrong With It?

I have a Sako 223 Hunter 75 B.A. I reload all ammo for it , 55grn Nosler,Benchmark
Powder,this is a good combination for me, mostly used on Foxes,& Roe, vermin, this is a superb caliber,flat shooting,very accurate,cheap to run, will perform extremely well out to 300yds on foxes,tho I have surprised foxes at 400yds,so my opinion is that there is nothing wrong with it,however everyone is entitled to their own view ,reading the posts I have the feeling that I share my thoughts with many who have posted.
Pic of my 223. Morse
 

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Cartridges are developed to solve a particular problem, at a particular time, constrained by the limits of engineering applicable at the time. .223, like all other cartridges, is a collection of compromises. It has also been the subject of a great deal of experimentation and post-introduction upgrading. Cartridges work best for a particular range of applications. 300 Win Mag is a good choice for elk but might not be the best choice for prairie dogs. Where .223 falls down is when you hit the limits of what can be accomplished with a 22 cal bullet and roughly 26 grains of powder. Because .223 (and .308) have a somewhat privileged status in NMC and F-class competition, competitors are frequently bumping up against this limit.
 
re velocity gains when going from the .223 to the .223 ackley: my les baer .223 varmint pushes a 52 gr fowler to 3300fps with 26 gr of 8208xbr while the .223 ai bolt gun gets 3560 with 28 gr...two gr more than the .223 les baer, and 260 more fps "right at", not exactly the same as my .22-.250. these charges require a drop tube to keep powder out of the neck, leaving a whisper of air between bullet base and powder. my .22-.250 can shoot the same 52 fowler at 3780fps BUT, BUT requiring 36.2 of varget or 37 gr of n540, 10 more grains of powder. these latter guns are barrel burners way beyond the .223...10 k rounds posted above! i have 800+ thru the ackley and can see only a very slight cracking.
 
All I know is I have seen my buds pure stock Rock River AR shoot .5 at 100 yds.

Good enough.

Link
 
I have seven 223's, all bolt rifles, all with 12" twist. Four are heavy barrel varmint version, all shoot sub 1/2 moa with tuned reloads; one of which with a Douglas match barrel shoots sub 1/4 moa.

Even my two model seven's and Browning Stalker are in the 1/2 moa range.

For varmint/ predator hunting 250 yards and under, it's my favorite caliber. Never had trouble getting them to shoot with Varget, H4895, Benchmark, or H335 with 50 to 55 grain Noslers, Hornady V max, or Sierra's.

There's nothing wrong with the 223 Remington that I can see except right now it's difficult to get reloading components.
 
I have Browning and Howa 223 Rem varmint rifles that shoot 1/2 inch 100 yard groups but since getting a .204 Ruger varmint rifle for prairie dog shooting I don't use the 223 R rifles very much.
 
RMulhern.....Well,I guess you don't care for the .45-70,the .30-40,the .30-06,or the .308(among others)as they were used as "Service Rifle" cartridges,also!
 
The 5.56 makes a great turtle cartridge along with coyotes, PD, geese and humans. There is no finer caliber for geese then the 223 or 5.56. Heck what does it take to kill a turtle? 5.56 is more than enough to take out one of those guys. Like I have said before it does not take a belted magnum to kill todays modern smaller deer.
The wars we are fighting is against terrorists. We need to pick a different bullet. Why shoot a bullet that was designed to penetrate Soviet body armor from the 80’s when our current targets barely have shirts? Granted it is all for not since most of the guys I have been talking to who have been there all stated they never shot past 200yds unless they had a bigger machine gun. My favorite quote was why shoot 400yds when you can call in an airstrike or indirect fire.

I would like to give them a bigger round with more distance and punch. Why spend the cash on new weapons, ammo and training when the users will not be using the extra punch and will bitch that everything weighs more? It is far easier to just change bullets.

Now for us who do not shoot for a living. There is nothing wrong with the 223. It will give its owner many years and thousands of rounds of great accuracy at a lower cost.
 
RMulhern said:
The biggest thing wrong with it......is that it's used as our Service Rifle cartridge!!

I wouldn't pay 15 cents for a train-load of the damn things!!

How does a perceived weakness in a war setting translate to any weakness in a civilian setting?

Phil
 
Phil3,
My Rem 700 SPS, Choate stock bedded, Timney trigger .223 has achieved groups under 1/4 MOA @ 100 yards. Yesterday, I shot it out to 600 yards for the first time with pretty good success
Some days you're good and some days you're just lucky.

Best to you Phil,
Dave
 
[quote author=people link]
The wars we are fighting is against terrorists. We need to pick a different bullet.[/quote]

Hence development of the Mk262 and Mk318.

Probably about as good as it gets within the Hague Convention.
 
We just need the lawyers to bend the definitions a little more. Just like the OTM they are “not designed to open”. Or we just need to get a bullet like the soviets designed the 7n1 bullet.
 
Phil3 said:
I now have two centerfire rifles, one an AR in 223 and the other a Howa bolt action in 223. I reload for both, and am after best accuracy. I know the round is not used where top accuracy is desired, so wondered just what is not so good about the 223? Low bullet coefficient, poor ballistics, jack of all trades, but master of none, or...? Or other rounds that simply outdo it everywhere?

As a side note, I will be using other rounds in other rifles in the future (6mmbr for sure, maybe 6.5 x 47), so not wedded to the 223.

Phil

It depends on how you look at it. The 222 Remington was the pride and joy of early benchrest, superceded by the PPCs. The 223 was developed as an intermediate between the 222 and 222 Mag, with a 50-60gr bullet in mind. If you are looking for benchrest, the 223 was not developed for that, go to a PPC. If you are looking for 1000y shooting, you can stretch the 223 with the 90gr VLDs and a 1:6.5 twist barrel, but as you said, the ballistics of a .223 bullet at 90grs makes the case too long to fit most chambers. When fitted, they shoot well, but run into a limit of case volume for the extra velocity for 1000y. There are quite a few competitors shooting HP competitions anyway, so its the shooters challenge then.

If you are within the 50-77gr range, the 223 is an excellent cartridge out to 600y, which is why it was developed. No need for a 30-06 size mil-cartridge with range to 1000y when 90% of fire fights are at 100-300y. Smaller case/bullet = more ammo for same weight. The AR-15 is a fun rifle, and I built one in 223 for 600y competition, and I am finding it a pleasant challenge, however, I feel that 6.5 Grendel is a better
overall cartridge for similar shooting distance as it is better balanced between bullet ballistics and case volume.

.223 is also deployed to reduce the problem of over penetration in the LE and Military fields. In the private sector, that means a good start for varmint hunting. the 35-50gr can do very well, with performance approaching the new 204 ruger. On the other end, however, I feel it is too small for deer, but I won't start that debate, to each their own. If the world turns upside down, I'll bring home deer with my 223 if needed.

That said, the cartridge is extremely versatile, which brings up its last down-fall. To make use of a varmint bullet and a long-range bullet, you'd just about need two barrels, but a 1:9 will cover just about the widest range of light to mid/heavy, or a 1:8 for mid to heavy.

223 Remington is a great cartridge, but one of its greatest downfalls is the need to build the rifle and cartridge together for your purpose. With so many options and components out there, it is very easy to pick up mismatched parts causing lack-luster performance.

-Mac
 
I have two .223 rifles myself, a 16" and 20" in Ar-15 platform and I just love them.....when I shoot my rifles I don't just sling lead down range I try to get as accurate a shot as I can with the equipment I have.....That's what's the most fun about 223 is you can do it how you want to, it's the Swiss Army knife of cartridges in my opinion because you have such a range of bullet types and powder choices that you can usually find a load setup Taylor made for what you want to do at the time....you can be good short range or out at 400-600 it's not a one trick pony.. I know people tend to prefer bolt guns for more accuracy but for me I like the flexibility of swapping out an upper and having yet another caliber or use (i.e. 16" upper to 300blk to a 24" varminter) with the same ergonomics my body has practice in. Enjoy shooting whatever you decide on cause in the end the enjoyment is what matters.
 

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