I have an F T/R rifle with a 7T Criterion barrel chambered in .223 Rem enroute and I'm looking for some advice. I have a few different bullets and different powders but I'm hoping someone could give me a good starting point for load development. If you have any advice I'd certainly appreciate the help.
.223 Rem F T/R advice
- Thread starter JCamp502
- Start date
SVT_Tactical
Gold $$ Contributor
7 twist would be OK for the 85.5 bergers or straight 80. I would start with the 85.5s and do a ladder test with a suitable powder you have in hand.
F T/R; I'm assume my you're going for 600y+. H4895 and Varget and an 80.5 Berger or heavier. 90s can work, but you'd be the first for ultimate success.
Freebore is the real question, do you load to 2.380; 2.455, or 2.550. depends on your chamber
~24.0 gr Varget and a 77gr Sierra for practice reading the wind.
I like cci br4; but test primers too.
Freebore is the real question, do you load to 2.380; 2.455, or 2.550. depends on your chamber
~24.0 gr Varget and a 77gr Sierra for practice reading the wind.
I like cci br4; but test primers too.
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RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
The 223 to 1000 yards isn't easy, but it isn't impossible.
Getting a 90 VLD to 2900 isn't easy on the cases.
Your 600 loads can be more sane using 80s.
You will be pushing your brass pretty hard in order to get the pressure required for enough speed to stay sonic at 1000. So for starters be prepared to stay well stocked on your favorite brass cause the pockets won't last long for those 1000 yard loads.
Getting a 90 VLD to 2900 isn't easy on the cases.
Your 600 loads can be more sane using 80s.
You will be pushing your brass pretty hard in order to get the pressure required for enough speed to stay sonic at 1000. So for starters be prepared to stay well stocked on your favorite brass cause the pockets won't last long for those 1000 yard loads.
Jdne5b
Gold $$ Contributor
It will depend on the freebore but you should be looking to use 80-90gr bullets.
80.5 Bergers are silly easy to tune, but get blown around in the wind.
85.5 and 90vld are a little harder to tune but better in the wind.
Varget, n140, h4895, ARComp would be a few of the powders to look for.
80.5 Bergers are silly easy to tune, but get blown around in the wind.
85.5 and 90vld are a little harder to tune but better in the wind.
Varget, n140, h4895, ARComp would be a few of the powders to look for.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
TLDR: There are rules to certain games, specifically ones that limit a class to 308 or 223.
It is pretty straightforward to use 223 to 600 yards and stay competitive. You can even see some very good shooting from 20" single fed service rifles using 80s. Going to 1000 yards is another story.
I won't extend this thread with ballistics charts, but if you play with your favorite you will see why it is hard to keep a 223 sonic at 1000 yards unless you go to these measures.
For those who don't play in these games, I'll paste in a snippet of an old rule book I have on hand, it may have changed but this give you a rough idea of the limits on the 308 and 223 when playing in the Limited class. ETA boldened the concept that this was for a description of the limited class rules and how we ended up seeing 90 as the top. It happens naturally due to practical limits of the barrel diameter and materials regardless of these rules. Point being, when the limits do not apply, it makes it even more of a challenge since the 308 folks bring even more variations if they are not limited.
So, the 308 in international rules is limited to the 155 and the 223 is limited to the 90.
The OP will be going up against a majority of 308. This is because it is difficult to keep a 223 competitive at 1000 yards at normal pressure. Only a handful of very expert shooters run the 223 at 1000 yards and win, but these folks are around and if they show up you had best not underestimate them.
More and more venues are converting to e-Targets and some of those require the bullet to be sonic at the target for the microphones to respond.
It is pretty straightforward to use 223 to 600 yards and stay competitive. You can even see some very good shooting from 20" single fed service rifles using 80s. Going to 1000 yards is another story.
I won't extend this thread with ballistics charts, but if you play with your favorite you will see why it is hard to keep a 223 sonic at 1000 yards unless you go to these measures.
For those who don't play in these games, I'll paste in a snippet of an old rule book I have on hand, it may have changed but this give you a rough idea of the limits on the 308 and 223 when playing in the Limited class. ETA boldened the concept that this was for a description of the limited class rules and how we ended up seeing 90 as the top. It happens naturally due to practical limits of the barrel diameter and materials regardless of these rules. Point being, when the limits do not apply, it makes it even more of a challenge since the 308 folks bring even more variations if they are not limited.
So, the 308 in international rules is limited to the 155 and the 223 is limited to the 90.
The OP will be going up against a majority of 308. This is because it is difficult to keep a 223 competitive at 1000 yards at normal pressure. Only a handful of very expert shooters run the 223 at 1000 yards and win, but these folks are around and if they show up you had best not underestimate them.
More and more venues are converting to e-Targets and some of those require the bullet to be sonic at the target for the microphones to respond.
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Mine is AI chambered so I can’t help you much now. I was shooting 75ELD with 24.8 and 25.0 TAC with nice 1/2 MOA groups @ 700 yards. I still use TAC in the AI with Berger 85.5. They are nice. About 2.550 COL.
2024 F-Class (F-T/R) rules doesn't seem to have the 90gr limit.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
One of my customers is the father of one of the top Junior thousand yard shooters in the country. Apparently, he beat Whidden at Perry at 1000 but I don't know the details.
He practices with the 88 ELDM at 2830 fps and uses Berger 90 vld at the same speed for big comps.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
Neither do the ICFRA F-class rules. @RegionRat those are the TR (Palma) rules - note the 'T'.
Jeff Porter
Gold $$ Contributor
With those limits …. Running a 90 VLD at 2800-2900 is actually better in the wind than the 156.5 at 3000. That will be supersonic at 1000 easily too. A bit easier to hold elevation with the .308 larger case but until you shoot heavier .30 cal up to to 200-20x etc .223 can hang with the IFCRA / Fullbore rules for bullet weight.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
You are correct. OP says he is only going to 600 so no worries about 1000 either way.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
some of the answers here look straight out of 2013, ( and don’t understand F class) This has been done to death.
SEARCH in the 223 forum for info. There is a ton there. Ned Lund, myself, and Jdne5b have written a lot about this.
Step 1 Get the right reamer. You need at least a .169 freebore
Step 2 Stop! Re-read step one. Go no further till you have that. Do not try to shoot heavies from any “factory“ or pre fit chamber unless someone just happens to be cutting one with the ISSF reamer.
Step 3 load Berger 90VLDs jammed .010 over 24.3 gain of Varget plus or minus .3 grains Do load work (or not) and go shoot.
This should give you a load in the range of 2800 FPS from a 30” barrel. There are people who shoot them faster, at the expense of brass life. Precision trumps velocity, always choose tight over fast.
When my son was 11 or 12 I did exactly that with an old savage action I dropped into a chassis that I could make short enough for an 11 yo. It has an old Criterion profit that I had re-chambered with my ISSF reamer. Zero load work, just load and shoot, and he got a mid range EX card that summer. He was shooting unsorted early 90s LC brass.
And for those debating Palma, I’m pretty certain that Kim Rowe shoots 90s to good effect.
You can certainly use other powders. VV 140 and VV150 should work, I just haven’t ever loaded them in my 223s.
I have fiddled with mine and have found better loads that were off the lands, but as a starting point I’ve never had the 90VLD not shoot well jammed.
SEARCH in the 223 forum for info. There is a ton there. Ned Lund, myself, and Jdne5b have written a lot about this.
Step 1 Get the right reamer. You need at least a .169 freebore
Step 2 Stop! Re-read step one. Go no further till you have that. Do not try to shoot heavies from any “factory“ or pre fit chamber unless someone just happens to be cutting one with the ISSF reamer.
Step 3 load Berger 90VLDs jammed .010 over 24.3 gain of Varget plus or minus .3 grains Do load work (or not) and go shoot.
This should give you a load in the range of 2800 FPS from a 30” barrel. There are people who shoot them faster, at the expense of brass life. Precision trumps velocity, always choose tight over fast.
When my son was 11 or 12 I did exactly that with an old savage action I dropped into a chassis that I could make short enough for an 11 yo. It has an old Criterion profit that I had re-chambered with my ISSF reamer. Zero load work, just load and shoot, and he got a mid range EX card that summer. He was shooting unsorted early 90s LC brass.
And for those debating Palma, I’m pretty certain that Kim Rowe shoots 90s to good effect.
You can certainly use other powders. VV 140 and VV150 should work, I just haven’t ever loaded them in my 223s.
I have fiddled with mine and have found better loads that were off the lands, but as a starting point I’ve never had the 90VLD not shoot well jammed.
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