New to the forum, Thanks for your help! I just started working with 223 rem. I am having a problem with neck sizing. After I've tumbled lubed and Full length resized the brass, I tried to trim to length and about half of the cases will not fit the pilot. The cases that do, fit very snugly, but they do fit. I have a Foster trimmer, It shouldn't make any difference but I bought the pilot for the outside neck turner and same thing. It seems that the expander ball is too small by a tiny bit, but i guess that doesn't explain why some fit and some don't. I gues I should add that the cases are military brass so I'm wondering if the buletts were crimped and the resizing die isn't taking that little crimp out enough. Has anyone had this experience? I've been reloading for 30yrs and have never run into this but this is the first time i've used military brass. I know it presents it's unique challenges but it is more abundant than factory brass and I thought it would be useful to learn how to work with it. It's easy to get brass at the range but the mil stuff is more common. Thanks for you ideas.
223 neck sizing problem
- Thread starter x-hunter
- Start date
Get a Wilson trimmer and your troubles will go away!
I guess I should have added that the outside neck turner is an RCBS hand neck turner. I should not have assumed that they would be the same size but he pilot for the Foster trimmer I bought through Midway so I don't even really know if it is a Foster pilot or just "fits Foster" pilot. I'm wondering why a Wilson trimmer would make the problem go away. I just don't know why if the cases were all risized in the same die why one fits the pilot perfectly and one doesn't. Should the finish ID on the case neck be the same size as the expander ball or will there be a bit of "spring back".
ar10ar15man
the wilson does not use a pilot. it uses a case holder and cutter.....both in the same plane......
i have a couple of wilson's that i leave setup for specific guns, but for bulk 308 and 223 i use a POSSUM HOLLOW trimmer. it is used by hand, in a drill or in a lathe...works off the case shoulder of sized cases...
i have a couple of wilson's that i leave setup for specific guns, but for bulk 308 and 223 i use a POSSUM HOLLOW trimmer. it is used by hand, in a drill or in a lathe...works off the case shoulder of sized cases...
x-hunter said:
bigedp51
x-hunter
Its normal for previous crimped cases to be a snug fit on your pilots, when this occurs you will need to use your inside deburring tool to open up the mouth of the case just before trimming.
Or if your lazy like me you buy the WFT Trimmer for trimming your .223/5.56 cases.
What I use to prep military cases and their crimps.
Its normal for previous crimped cases to be a snug fit on your pilots, when this occurs you will need to use your inside deburring tool to open up the mouth of the case just before trimming.
Or if your lazy like me you buy the WFT Trimmer for trimming your .223/5.56 cases.
What I use to prep military cases and their crimps.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
+1,..get yourself a Wilson,...they really are the WFT! That doesn't answer your question on your problem of different sizes, I think BigEd probably is correct and he has buckets and buckets of military brass that he has done. I think if you sized rem or Win brass you wouldn't find that problem, I would do as ed says as your neck tension will be different and if your shooting long it will really show up on target as a lot of vertical! here is a link for the WFT although as I already said the Wilson is the worlds finest trimmer as far as I and the bulk of the people on this forum.FroggyOne2 said:
Wayne.
http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html
bigedp51
x-hunter
Open up the crimped mouth of the case with a VDL deburring tool and remove the remains of the crimp and your cases will fit your trimmer pilot. I just finished up prepping three five gallon buckets of Lake City and Federal cases that had crimped primer pockets and crimped bullets.
Some of these cases would not fit the pilot of my Lyman trimmer or even fit on the spindle of a simple Lee case trimmer after resizing.
I switched to a WFT trimmer because I had so many cases to do prep and was tired of having sore fingers. All you need to realize is brass WILL try and spring back to its original shape and size and some cases will have the remains of a crimp even after the expander button has passed through the neck.
Trust me, my fingers were bleeding and paralyzed before I finished one five gallon bucket of .223/5.56 (And one fire gallon bucket isn't in the photo) :'(
Open up the crimped mouth of the case with a VDL deburring tool and remove the remains of the crimp and your cases will fit your trimmer pilot. I just finished up prepping three five gallon buckets of Lake City and Federal cases that had crimped primer pockets and crimped bullets.
Some of these cases would not fit the pilot of my Lyman trimmer or even fit on the spindle of a simple Lee case trimmer after resizing.
I switched to a WFT trimmer because I had so many cases to do prep and was tired of having sore fingers. All you need to realize is brass WILL try and spring back to its original shape and size and some cases will have the remains of a crimp even after the expander button has passed through the neck.
Trust me, my fingers were bleeding and paralyzed before I finished one five gallon bucket of .223/5.56 (And one fire gallon bucket isn't in the photo) :'(
bigedp51
bozo699 said:
I'm not joking Wayne, my fingers were so sore from prepping these military cases I went out and bought some new Winchester cases to shoot and give my fingers a rest. I was loading for three AR15 rifles and a bolt action .223 rifle, I like "free" Lake City brass but it was a long process to get it all prepped.
Thanks for the welcome and all the help. I just can not imagine prepping that much brass. I shoot a bolt off a bench and can't go as much as I want to, so loading a couple hundred at a time is a lot for me. I'll have to get a WTF trimmer. I finance my hobbies with extra work which cuts into the time I have to spend loading and shooting. Just bought a new rifle and scope so I can't get a trimmer right away but at least with evryones help I have been able to figure out how to deal with the problem. As I said, this is the first mil brass I have worked with. I bought the crimp remover for the RCBS prep station. I also picked up the RCBS hand priming tool. It was the first time iv'e used either the crimp remover or the priming tool, but when I primed the first lot of cases it took very little effort to seat the primers. I thought the hand primer would give me a better "feel" but did'nt really feel anything. I switched the tool over and primed some large rifle primers in some factory brass and then could see how it should feel. I think maybe I worked the decrimper more than I should have and this may take a little practice. Now I will find out that this is not how everybody else decrimps and what I should be using. I'm going to try going lightly on a few with the priming tool set up so I can try to prime a few csaes instead of screwing up a couple hundred I"m assuming the worst thing that can happen if the primers are a little loose is there will be some gas leaking around the primer or should I just not shoot these at all?
bigedp51
dabibbee said:
I wore these same super grip gloves you mentioned, my problem is I'm retired and have nothing to do and all day to do it and forgot what working in moderation means.
They are now advertising a new product called "Brass Grippers" for $84.95 and now you can get carpal tunnel and hand cramps that prevent you from holding a fork and eating. (but at least your fingers won't be bleeding and numb. :'(
http://www.brassgripper.com/
bigedp51
x-hunter said:
At the time I couldn't imagine being the only person at the range after the SWAT teams and Police were done practicing and all that .223/5.56 brass was laying around. The only downside was the Federal 5.56 brass had a large reject rate due to loose primer pockets.
Below the once fired Federal cases are not worth buying if you want to reload them due to a thin flash hole web area which causes loose primer pockets.
It shouldn't suprise me that those guys would leave the mess for some one else to pick up. I can now see the difference between a 5.56 guy and a 223 guy. I am loading for a varmit target rig so I'm not sure this range brass is woth it. I had 100 rds loaded close to max with 4198 and a 68gr bullet and they didn't have the moxie to cycle in my buddies AR. Is there an ideal load for the AR's.
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