223 load development w/ new brass

[fkimble@charter.net]

I think he has 11 answers out of 10 folks!
How did you set headspace? With new brass I would set it to the new brass. That way the first firing would be near the same internal volume as fireformed brass. Lots of "known" loads for 223 with 69 grain bullets. A little research should produce known good loads with your powder choice. Backoff a little to start with of course! Should make life a little easier and save a lot of components and barrel life. On a new barrel, I usually just start with my last barrels load. If it was on the warm side I back off a little. On a non-warm load I start with the old load!
Good luck on your new barrel.

Frank

 

[BP1]

I think this is a little bit over the top for a 600yd load, and the OP has RCBS dies.

Not at all.

 

[DLT]

Thanks for the replies. Next question, should I do a ocw test or a ladder test, I have a range I can get 200yards easily. I also have access to pretty much any distance 1,000 and in I just have to lay prone to shoot and rig up the target stand. Looks like 69smk and varget is a big hit on here should I do .2 or .3 jumps ?

 

[Doom]

Thanks for the replies. Next question, should I do a ocw test or a ladder test, I have a range I can get 200yards easily. I also have access to pretty much any distance 1,000 and in I just have to lay prone to shoot and rig up the target stand. Looks like 69smk and varget is a big hit on here should I do .2 or .3 jumps ?

Based on your question I am assuming that this is your first attempt at reloading and load development? Is that correct? Also, how many shots do you have on the new barrel?

As for load increments, I would use 0.2 gr. The nodes in 223 are small, usually +/-0.1gr. When you mention ladder it's not clear if you mean Audette's ladder or a modification using a chronograph. Shooting a ladder you need about 300yds so you have that but it's hard to track your shots without a good spotting scope or camera. It also make it hard to maintain position on the rifle. Newberry's OCW can be done at 100yds and is easier to track. It's the method I use and it works. There is good documentation on it here:

Home

Not to start another controversy, but don't go looking for a flat spot with the chronograph.

 

[DLT]

Based on your question I am assuming that this is your first attempt at reloading and load development? Is that correct? Also, how many shots do you have on the new barrel?

As for load increments, I would use 0.2 gr. The nodes in 223 are small, usually +/-0.1gr. When you mention ladder it's not clear if you mean Audette's ladder or a modification using a chronograph. Shooting a ladder you need about 300yds so you have that but it's hard to track your shots without a good spotting scope or camera. It also make it hard to maintain position on the rifle. Newberry's OCW can be done at 100yds and is easier to track. It's the method I use and it works. There is good documentation on it here:

Home

Not to start another controversy, but don't go looking for a flat spot with the chronograph.

Based on your question I am assuming that this is your first attempt at reloading and load development? Is that correct? Also, how many shots do you have on the new barrel?

As for load increments, I would use 0.2 gr. The nodes in 223 are small, usually +/-0.1gr. When you mention ladder it's not clear if you mean Audette's ladder or a modification using a chronograph. Shooting a ladder you need about 300yds so you have that but it's hard to track your shots without a good spotting scope or camera. It also make it hard to maintain position on the rifle. Newberry's OCW can be done at 100yds and is easier to track. It's the method I use and it works. There is good documentation on it here:

Home

Not to start another controversy, but don't go looking for a flat spot with the chronograph.

By far not the first time, however it is the first time with other than a factory barrel. And no worries about watching a chrono every shot for flat spots. I either suck or it doesn’t work good at all with factory barrels lol. I have wasted many many hours and components trying that mess. HOWEVER !!! I have come up with very good es/sd loads with rifles that way they just all grouped sub par for me.

 

[Drop Port]

If I can get .5 moa all day any day I’ll be happy

The good news is, if you are ok with .5moa I've been able to get that often from the start with a 69 or 77 with very little brass prep and a known combo / starting point. My last 16.5" can gun on a Broughton did it during break in pressure testing with a 77 and Varget. Checked the flash holes rounded the necks with a quick pass of the ball and a quick chamfer. Not a target gun prep but good enough for what I was using it for.

 

[DLT]

The good news is, if you are ok with .5moa I've been able to get that often from the start with a 69 or 77 with very little brass prep and a known combo / starting point. My last 16.5" can gun on a Broughton did it during break in pressure testing with a 77 and Varget. Checked the flash holes rounded the necks with a quick pass of the ball and a quick chamfer. Not a target gun prep but good enough for what I was using it for.

Oh yea I can promise, if I can get half moa out of it I will be a happy dude

 

[DLT]

Can’t win for losing. Went to shoot the rifle today. Started out with Federal 77gm I had 9 rounds it sailed each of them well into an 1” orange sticker. Proceeded on to my hand loads with new prepped starline brass. 1st round went off and the other 2 misfired. I checked to make sure I had a primer strike and I did, looked like a good one on both rounds. I recently replaced the firing pin spring so I tore the bolt apart and extended the firing pin. Went from .040 protrusion to .050. Assembled and tried the rounds again, same result a misfire. I extended the firing pin again to .060 and still same result. Put in another factory round and it fired. Question is do I need to look for different brass or try and seat the bullets out longer ? I know the starline brass is shorter at the shoulder than the federal loads I had. When I installed the barrel. I set it at bare minimum with 1 piece of scotch tape on the go gauge. Help

 

[DLT]

Measurements are as follows
New starline brass. 3.051
Fired starline brass. 3.054

Ptg go gauge. 3.051
No go gauge. 3.053 (1 piece of scotch tape)

 

[snowpro440]

i took my load from the sierra book 69gr smk 25.2 varget it just gets it for my savages

 

[jelenko]

Can’t win for losing. Went to shoot the rifle today. Started out with Federal 77gm I had 9 rounds it sailed each of them well into an 1” orange sticker. Proceeded on to my hand loads with new prepped starline brass. 1st round went off and the other 2 misfired. I checked to make sure I had a primer strike and I did, looked like a good one on both rounds. I recently replaced the firing pin spring so I tore the bolt apart and extended the firing pin. Went from .040 protrusion to .050. Assembled and tried the rounds again, same result a misfire. I extended the firing pin again to .060 and still same result. Put in another factory round and it fired. Question is do I need to look for different brass or try and seat the bullets out longer ? I know the starline brass is shorter at the shoulder than the federal loads I had. When I installed the barrel. I set it at bare minimum with 1 piece of scotch tape on the go gauge. Help

Have you pulled the bullet to check if there's powder in the handloads? If so, confirm whether the primer did ignite.

FYI. My experience with factory ammo is they are shorter than SAAMI min - i.e., shorter than a go gauge.

 

[txtaxman]

Measurements are as follows
New starline brass. 3.051
Fired starline brass. 3.054

Ptg go gauge. 3.051
No go gauge. 3.053 (1 piece of scotch tape)

What have you measured? These numbers do not appear to be for a 223.
Midway's description of a .223 go gauge: "The SAAMI specifications for .223 and .556 nato are same at 1.4636 for the go gauge"

 

[DLT]

What have you measured? These numbers do not appear to be for a 223.
Midway's description of a .223 go gauge: "The SAAMI specifications for .223 and .556 nato are same at 1.4636 for the go gauge"

I had to improvise on a comparator . My hornady comparator is at my reloading bench. I used a sized 6.5 grendel case to fit over the gauge and 223 shoulder

 

[DLT]

Have you pulled the bullet to check if there's powder in the handloads? If so, confirm whether the primer did ignite.

FYI. My experience with factory ammo is they are shorter than SAAMI min - i.e., shorter than a go gauge.

That’s next step going to pull it this evening. I weighed the round and it does have powder in it. When I got home I put both in a ar15. One fired and the other didn’t. Tried that round in another ar15 it still didn’t go bang. I have never had a dud primer that I can remember could be the first. It was also one of the last 10 in a sleeve. During barrel break in a week ago, it fired 22 rounds without a hiccup. Same new unfired brass. Only difference was the powder and bullets

 

[DLT]

I must have had a bad primer. Nothing wrong with rifle I fired 30 rounds yesterday and not 1 misfire. My 223 wylde chamber touching the lands with a 69smk is 2.280. I started off jamming .020 don’t know why just to try it. Bullets barely have land marks and can’t feel any resistance closing or opening the bolt. I started with varget at 24.0 and went up to 25 using .2 increments with new starline brass. I noticed powder crunching at 24.4. I put my scope back on prior to shooting and loaded 5 at 24.0 to get on paper and zeroed. After the 24.0 group I did make a scope adjustment. 100 yards and it was swirling wind during most shots. 63 total rounds fired through new barrel

 

[dcali]

Forums are great, but buy a good reloading book for the basics. The Lyman one is pretty good for the step by step stuff. That's the best one that I am familiar with. I'm sure there are others, maybe even better. Ask around.

As for brass life, you need to ignore the instructions on the sizing die that tell you to screw it all the way down. That's way too much, and they do that to make sure it will fit any chamber. Size it only about .002 from the fired dimension (that is, move the shoulder back by 0.002" - you'll need calipers and a gage like the hornady comparator to measure this. I very much doubt you need to size the new brass at all. I've never had to. Sometimes the necks need cleaning up because they get dented in shipping/packaging. But don't push the shoulder back much at all on new brass unless it won't fit in your chamber, which is unlikely.

Also, stay away from max pressure. High pressures will open up the primer pockets faster, which is usually where brass fails - they get too big to hold the primer. Back off a good 5-10% from the book max value and your brass will last quite a while. Push it too high and you can smoke it in a single firing.

The wylde chamber has a fairly sloppy neck (I believe it was developed for ARs), so the other potential failure point is the necks hardening and splitting. Each time you fire the brass, it gets a little harder. If you start getting split necks, you can anneal them and that will reset them back to soft. Annealing is an advanced practice, and I would not recommend you do it as a beginner. But you'll be several firings into your brass before you need to anyhow, so keep it in mind. For your purposes a a torch will do the job just fine. You don't need a fancy machine. Or fancy anything, to be honest - there's a recent trend of absurdly expensive luxury reloading gear that some guys just love, but is totally unnecessary. I'm guilty of ownign some of it myself. But don't think you need any of it to make exceptional match grade ammo.

By the way, those bullets are marginal at best for 600 yard shooting. I wouldn't even try with anything less than 69 grains, and even that is going to be a challenge on any but the calmest days. I don't know what the twist on your barrel is, but if it's high enough (8 or faster), try some 80 grain bullets at that range.

 

[DLT]

Forums are great, but buy a good reloading book for the basics. The Lyman one is pretty good for the step by step stuff. That's the best one that I am familiar with. I'm sure there are others, maybe even better. Ask around.

As for brass life, you need to ignore the instructions on the sizing die that tell you to screw it all the way down. That's way too much, and they do that to make sure it will fit any chamber. Size it only about .002 from the fired dimension (that is, move the shoulder back by 0.002" - you'll need calipers and a gage like the hornady comparator to measure this. I very much doubt you need to size the new brass at all. I've never had to. Sometimes the necks need cleaning up because they get dented in shipping/packaging. But don't push the shoulder back much at all on new brass unless it won't fit in your chamber, which is unlikely.

Also, stay away from max pressure. High pressures will open up the primer pockets faster, which is usually where brass fails - they get too big to hold the primer. Back off a good 5-10% from the book max value and your brass will last quite a while. Push it too high and you can smoke it in a single firing.

The wylde chamber has a fairly sloppy neck (I believe it was developed for ARs), so the other potential failure point is the necks hardening and splitting. Each time you fire the brass, it gets a little harder. If you start getting split necks, you can anneal them and that will reset them back to soft. Annealing is an advanced practice, and I would not recommend you do it as a beginner. But you'll be several firings into your brass before you need to anyhow, so keep it in mind. For your purposes a a torch will do the job just fine. You don't need a fancy machine. Or fancy anything, to be honest - there's a recent trend of absurdly expensive luxury reloading gear that some guys just love, but is totally unnecessary. I'm guilty of ownign some of it myself. But don't think you need any of it to make exceptional match grade ammo.

By the way, those bullets are marginal at best for 600 yard shooting. I wouldn't even try with anything less than 69 grains, and even that is going to be a challenge on any but the calmest days. I don't know what the twist on your barrel is, but if it's high enough (8 or faster), try some 80 grain bullets at that range.

I do all you mentioned above. I anneal every firing and I do bump my cases back .002.

 

[dcali]

I do all you mentioned above. I anneal every firing and I do bump my cases back .002.

You can save yourself some time and anneal every 5 firings or so. That is plenty to keep the necks intact.