223 info for LR shooting

[GR5150]

All, this is my first post on here and would like to get some expert advice. I am wanting to re-barrel my Howa 1500 223 I know I want to use a 1-8 twist barrel in stainless ... will be a Shilen SS select match in a #6 or 7 contour most likely. My question is what is the best length to get as much velocity as possible without shooting MAX loads. Next question is how much freebore??? Plan on shooting 75 gr AMAX and 77 SMK. This is my first venture into the "custom" rifle realm. Have also been really looking hard at chambering it in a 223 AI. Appreciate any advice. Thanks, Gary

 

[navyrad8r]

GR,
Welcome to the forum! How far is "long range" to you? there is a big difference between the 600, and 1000. If you are going to the 1k i would recommenda 6.5 twist and chamber it to shoot the Berger 90 vld, 80.5 full bore, or something a little heavier. 28-30" in length for the bbl, are you a sling shooter or sitting on a stool? The AI might be the right ticket here too. just my .02
cheers,
doc

 

[cmillard]

i would do a 7" twist and get the laurie holland spec'd reamer. he shoots 90 bergers out to 1200 yards with that combo

 

[GR5150]

Doc, I'd say mainly out to the 600 yd mark ... however the range I belong to goes to 1000 yds. I do want to also use this rifle for shooting coyotes as well. Do alot of coyote hunting at night from an elevated varmint rack using a spotlight.

 

[Rtheurer]

Hi Gary

Welcome aboard. If it was me... I would go with something between 26" to 30" for length and the #6 as the heaviest contour with the longer lengths... as not to make the gun nose heavy and awkward. That 1:8 will shoot the 80's as well so with that being said I like the reamer from PTG.. The Remington MATCH chamber. Its freebore is .0680 which is plent long. The shoulder and base are not to large and fit the Redding Full Length die very nice. Your brass, chamber and Die will all work very well together with this chamber which is I think is very important. Its very close to the Wylde chamber so if someone pipes up about that they are very close to being the same.

Sounds like a fun project... good first rifle to get started with. Not sure I would mess around with the 90's if you havnt loaded anything like those before. I have had my share and they can be fickel for even some of us old hands. A A-MAX is alot more forgiving for the first timer. ( if you have I apoligize no disrespect intended)
Click here and read before you do any ordering!!!!
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/05/equipment-ordering-custom-match-rifle.html

RussT

 

[Rtheurer]

That Coyote rifle is going to be awful heavy with a #6 or 7... Been there done that. It s--ked.

RT

 

[GR5150]

We shoot off of rotating chairs with a front rest and an arm rest. I have a 700 LVSF in 17 rem and a 700 SPS 204 Ruger sporter barrel to carry around calling coyotes in the daytime. I have reloaded for quite a few years ... but not to the precision level required for LR shooting. I have just started to sort brass by weight and am investing in a flash hole uniformer and primer pocket uniformer as well. I have never neck turned any brass either. So in a nutshell ... I am a rookie LR precision reloader LOL. So any precision brass prep info is also much appreciated. Gary

 

[Rtheurer]

Ha! sounds like P dog hunting not Yote hunting...

Is your Howa the varmint model with the wider forestock or is it a Sporter?

I would still go with the Remington Varmint profile over all others for what your doing. 26" should be plenty especially if you want to put a can on it later on. Dont want to talk you out of anything though. 75gr AMAX should be a good choice between speed and higher BC for you. They shoot well. I use them in my Prairie dog rifle with Accurate 2520 poured out of a harrel powder measure. LC cases. Or IMI or WCC. Douglas 1:7 from Midway. 25"

RT

 

[FroggyOne2]

Sean,

That 6.5 twist maybe needed for a Service Rifle, but for a bolt gun, no. At least 7 twist is all that is needed. I am running a 7.2 twist in all of my 223's.

To the OP, Medium Palma contour is all you need, it will give you a better balance, esp if you run a longer barrel. Even those will get heavy after a while if your carrying it around all over the place. If your going to use the 77's and 75 Amaxes, then just use a Wylde chamber and all should be good. No worry about the freebore. Just seat the bullets where the bearing surface is above the donut area with the 75's. The SIE 77's were designed with the National Match Service Rifle in mind for better windbucking on the short lines in National Match conditions. It is a mag length tolerant bullet. Just like the Berger 73LTB, which is another fine bullet.

Randy

 

[navyrad8r]

Froggy..duh your right, i am still a service rifle shooter.
GR keep with it and plan on going to the 1k. you can always get closer and be patient if you go with the 90 gr as RussT said they can be kinda challenging but when you get them figured out... ;D ask froggy. don't overlook the berger 80.5 full bore for shooting paper.
good luck on your build,
Cheers,
Doc

 

[GR5150]

Thanks for everyone's posts. Don't plan on doing any competitions with this rifle. Just love shooting rifles ... this rifle will be mainly shot from a bench or prone off my bipod. Or as I stated earlier out of a varmint rack to shoot coyotes or groundhogs when I go back to Ohio and WV. I want a set-up that can get me to 600 yds pretty consistently ... but still has the potential to hit at a 1000 in the right conditions. My plans are a 1-8 Shilen SS match select at 26 inches, a EGW 20 MOA base, a Konus 6.5-25x44, a RB trigger and a B&C A2 medalist stock. My Howa is the the 20in hvy barrel 1-12 twist, I have it in a B&C A2 Medalist stock. Great rifle, silky smooth action and shoots very well. I would like to have a set-up that is a varmint/predator/target rifle in one. Plan on staying in the 75-80 gr bullet range ... with the 75 amax has the primary bullet. Gary

 

[FroggyOne2]

May I suggest a load if your going to use the 75, it would be 24 grs of H4895

 

[GR5150]

Every 223 i have owned has shot H4895 well. I use BR-4 and CCI 400 primers for my 50 gr VMAX load in my Howa with H4895. Like I say i welcome all the info I can get. This is going to be a new venture for me ... I have never loaded anything heavier than a 55 BT or VMAX in my 223s. I am however pumped up about getting my rifle rebarreled and reaching out to the 600+ yds mark. I have 8208, Benchmark, H4895, and 4320 for powder on hand. I have Rem 7.5, Br-4 and CCI-400 primers on hand. I read Varget does well with the heavier 223 bullets. Gary

 

[Texas Solo]

I just got into the LR game about a month ago. I used a Savage action with the Shilen Select Match, 1/7, 28" bull. After much experimentation, I settled on the Berger 80VLD and a max load of PP2000 (25.1gr) = 2900fps. First time out I shot a 147/150 7X @ 500 meters.
I didn't find the 80VLD to be finicky at all. I think the use of quality brass & prep makes the biggest difference, along with whatever seating depth your rifle seems to like. FWIW, I'm using Hornady brass.

 

[zx10mike]

i have a 1 in 8 twist border barrel cut to 20". makes it handle nice with the shorter barrel and a few more clicks makes little difference.the berger bullets 73 grn ltbt work very well with varget for me.from 23 grns through to 24.5 all land in the same place.i'm no expert and learning every day but it shoots better than i can so i'm happy.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Texas Solo,

That is some good shootin for the first time out..

Randy

 

[kschilling]

Texas Solo / Randy:

I think I know exactly where that rifle was born!!!!! The target Cam helps... ))))

Ken

 

[Texas Solo]

Texas Solo,

That is some good shootin for the first time out..

Randy

Thanks, but it's time to give credit where credit is due. The above post is spot on. My rifle was built in Ken's playroom. He gets 100% credit for the advice and build.
And yes...Ken's target cam lets you see on a monitor exactly what you're doing from 500 meters away. Too cool!!
I will take credit for the loads, although Ken did suggest the Berger's and PP2000. All I had to do was to work with those components to find the sweet spot and get my stuff adjusted for consistency.

For those of you who don't Ken, here's a guy I met on another forum. About two weeks later we met up at his range and he let me shoot his stuff. A week later we were building my rifle. I've since joined his club and will shooting my first F Class match this Saturday. Thanks again for everything Ken....and I still owe you those wings and beer!

 

[kschilling]

No worries Brother.... simply surrounding myself with excellent shooters / rifles. Enjoy the build.... you earned it.

Ken

 

[flatlander]

GR5150 - I bought a 223 match reamer from PTG a few years ago, and every barrel i've chambered with it has shot very well. From a heavy 27" PacNor 1:7.5 to a 26" Krieger 1:7.7 sendero to a 30"Bartlein 1:7.2 5R med. Palma - they've all displayed very pleasing accuracy. This reamer's freebore is very similar to that of the Wylde AR reamer, but the body has tighter dimensions better suited to a boltgun.

Even with this throat, the PacNor shoots JLK90VLDs very well, but since I intended to shoot mostly 90s in the Bartlein, I throated it out another .080", so Berger 90VLDs seated to about .020" jam would have the boattail/body junction at or just above the case's neck/shoulder junction. This has worked quite well out to 1000yds with the 90s, but as Russ mentioned, getting consistently good results with the 90s out of a 223 requires some tedious loading work. I'm weighing charges to .02gr, weight-sorting brass, etc., and still haven't gotten ES/SD numbers down to where I want them. Will probably have to resort to taking at least a clean-up cut on case necks, and more than likely doing some serious culling of cases with large wall thickness variations before investing the time & effort to neck turn.

Sounds like a lot of work, but I gotta tell you - the 223 is a lot of fun to shoot, and it's especially rewarding when you get a load worked up that groups well clear out to 1000. I shoot a lot of steel, especially while doing load development, and it's practically impossible to see 223 hits on steel at 1k - but at least with electronic muffs, you can still hear those little 22 call bullets smacking the plate. If you've got the time to devote to the necessary load development, you might find getting there is half the fun.