223 FTR with factory ammo?

[swd]

A few kids in my daughters 4H club are interested in shooting. I have enough parts to put a 223 TR rifle together. Is there any factory ammo that would be accurate enough to shoot mid range with? I have a 7" twist on hand.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I believe the Federal Gold Match using Sierra Match Kings would be your best bet for factory ammo. You may find a fellow shooter/reloader who could help you out.

 

[Snuggie]

The thing about shooting a .223 in FTR is that you are competing against hand loaders who have it down to an art shooting either 80 or 90 grain bullets. Many are Master’s or HM’s. I take it you are talking about a bolt gun. I’ve shot the 80’s with a 7.7 TW that was a laser. Went to a 6.5 TW with the 90’s that’s pure lights out. You will have a hard time competing against them. Just my two cents, good luck!

 

[swd]

I'm a mid range HM but only shoot open. So I get the loading side. This rifle will be for the kids to get their feet wet with. I'm have no problem supplying l $3K worth of rifle, glass and bi pod, but when it comes to loading ammo I just don't have the time to load for myself, my daughter and some else's kid. I'm just hoping someone has some experience with factoroy ammo that's decent. Ultimately I'm hoping some of the families will be hooked enough to get into the sport.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I've used the FGMM 77 commercial ammunition on a number of occasions in 300 yd MR matches for F-TR and done very well. Past that distance however, it has a tendency to turn into a precision shotgun when the wind comes up. You can certainly use it at 600 yd, but it's pretty challenging with even mild wind conditions. On the other hand, it will certainly push you to become better at estimating the wind conditions in order to improve.

I would say the most important issue if using commercial .223 ammo is find the load with the heaviest (highest BC) possible bullet (i.e. probably 75-77 gr range) that shoots well in the rifle they will be shooting. It might be FGMM, but there are also other manufacturers that load the 77 SMK bullet, as well as a few that offer Hornady's 75 BTHP bullet. Chances are good that one or two of these will be "tuned" better to your rifle than the others. Testing a box each of a few different types to find which shoots the tightest is about the best you can do with commercial ammo.

Edited to add: I just did a quick search at ammoseek.com to see if anyone is loading any of the 80 gr .224" bullets commercially. It turns out that DoubleTap does load them. If (and that's potentially a big IF) they group well in your setup, the Nosler CC 80 gr bullet could a significant advantage in terms of windage. For such a heavy bullet, the factory velocity isn't bad either (2825 fps for a 24" test barrel, as compared to 2720 fps for FGMM 77s). I would definitely include a box of these in any testing I tried.

www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/doubletap-ammunition-223-rem-nosler-custom-competition-hollow-point-boat-tail-80-grains-2825-fps-20-rounds-per-box-22380m20-091037282941.do

Here's another [relatively] new offering that might also be worth a try:

//www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/part-number-32049-604544624014.do?sortby=priceAscend&refType=&from=fn&ecList=7&ecCategory=439122

 

[kzin]

FGM 77 is accurate enough but not much fun in high wind and/or 600.

https://www.venturamunitions.com/hsm-223-remington-90gr-bthp-match-ammo-50-rounds/

Loaded 90s, I've found it about as accurate as FGM

Problem is right now it seems to be out of stock on the entire internet.

 

[dcali]

The SMK 77 is adequate for F Class out to 600, and is loaded by a few factory sources. They won't win, but it will keep them on target and teach a lot about the wind. There may be better options, but something like this would work, assuming it shoots reasonably well in your rifle:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...m-nato-77-grain-sierra-matchking-hollow-point

 

[Mozella]

I almost hate to say this, but although I admit to not shooting very much factory ammo, my best results with .223 factory ammo has been with Black Hills Blue Box 77 grain reloads. Yes, they're reloads and only cost forty bucks for a box of 50, but they shoot surprisingly well.

Face it, you aren't likely to win with factory ammo no matter what, even at low level local matches, so searching for a factory load which will make these kids competitive is likely to be a waste of time. And spending a lot of money on a fruitless search makes even less sense. So get them something like the Black Hills blue box ammo and let them have fun and learn a thing or two.

Before long, the ones who want to get serious will figure out a way to reload. If some youngster where i shoot exhibited any real interest, I'd be more than happy to arrange for him or her to bring some components to my reloading room some Saturday and run off a batch of high quality ammo while teaching a thing or two about hand loading.

I'll bet there is someone like that where you shoot.

 

[Nowhere Man]

You will also have a problem when parents find out what it will cost Junior to shoot a match.

 

[Stumpy1]

Hi SWD,

If you change gears just a little bit, you could introduce the kids to shooting in the AR-Tactical class instead of full on F/TR.
Quickly, you need an AR15 (or AR10) with a 20" or shorter barrel, bipod, and rear bag -any caliber too.

The big advantage is you get to shoot on the regular MR target, so scores are higher and that might be more encouraging to new shooters of any age. The downside is that it is a provisional category, so they aren't eligible for a match win.

We have a few shooters that regularly compete in this class, and they are having a great time. Many are using factory ammo to good effect.

Here is an article i wrote for our State Association Newsletter that goes into a bit more detail.

I hope you find this useful,

Frank

 

[swd]

Hi SWD,

If you change gears just a little bit, you could introduce the kids to shooting in the AR-Tactical class instead of full on F/TR.
Quickly, you need an AR15 (or AR10) with a 20" or shorter barrel, bipod, and rear bag -any caliber too.

The big advantage is you get to shoot on the regular MR target, so scores are higher and that might be more encouraging to new shooters of any age. The downside is that it is a provisional category, so they aren't eligible for a match win.

We have a few shooters that regularly compete in this class, and they are having a great time. Many are using factory ammo to good effect.

Here is an article i wrote for our State Association Newsletter that goes into a bit more detail.

I hope you find this useful,

Frank

Frank, that's a really good idea. I'll kept it in mind. I know some of the families are shooters and may have AR's. I personally have the parts on hand to put a 223TR rifle together so I'll probably continue with that but for the families/kids that already have an AR that could lead get even more out shooting with us. Thanks!

 

[Jacob.A]

I'll second the suggestion of AR Tactical, it's a really good entry point for the sport. Scores are high for beginners, but it can still be really competitive for the master and HM level shooters, a few of the local guys that have shot off slings and in F class for decades are getting pretty into it. I gave it a go with a gun better suited for 2-gun action shooting and did remarkably well with 69 gr SMKs and a $99 Ballistic Advantage 16" barrel - 198-10x on my last string at 600 yards.

Just note that the current published rules are going to be changing, I've heard 15x is going to be the new upper limit on magnification.

 

[Michael C]

If you have three of them, maybe put up a 1000 yard target (at 600)and let just the kids shoot on it. That way it’s nice and big, they feel good about hitting it, and they only shoot against themselves the first few times. Some kid does not need to shoot against a bunch of guys that know how to read the wind, and have trigger control ect. After they get good on it, switch them to a smaller target, and still keep em in a “Junior F Class”.

Or, you can raise them right, put a service rifle in their hands and have them shoot high power and save the old fart F class shooting for later in life! Sorry, I am a sling shooter and just cant help myself. But seriously any shooting is good for them, and we want them to enjoy it, not hate it because they cant hit the center of the target.

 

[JBT47]

You may want to contact Josh at Copper Creek. He can supply you with good .223 ammo.

 

[rckendall]

I almost hate to say this, but although I admit to not shooting very much factory ammo, my best results with .223 factory ammo has been with Black Hills Blue Box 77 grain reloads. Yes, they're reloads and only cost forty bucks for a box of 50, but they shoot surprisingly well.

Face it, you aren't likely to win with factory ammo no matter what, even at low level local matches, so searching for a factory load which will make these kids competitive is likely to be a waste of time. And spending a lot of money on a fruitless search makes even less sense. So get them something like the Black Hills blue box ammo and let them have fun and learn a thing or two.

Before long, the ones who want to get serious will figure out a way to reload. If some youngster where i shoot exhibited any real interest, I'd be more than happy to arrange for him or her to bring some components to my reloading room some Saturday and run off a batch of high quality ammo while teaching a thing or two about hand loading.

I'll bet there is someone like that where you shoot.

+1 on the Black Hills Blue Box