.223 F-TR midrange loads

[duanehunter1]

.223 1-7 twist 24" barrel. 80g SMK or 80g ELD, Anyone care to share their loads. I currently am using 80SMK 24g RL-15 jammed .010 into the lands and wonder if anyone is using this load or Varget with any success. Also considering trying the Hornady 75g ELD.

 

[swadiver]

not sure how much freebore your barrel has, but in my 1 in 7.7 twist Bartlein with a longer throat (not sure of the actual freebore), 23.0 grs of H4895 underneath a Berger 80.5 Fullbore shoots excellent out to 600 yds. on a light wind day, it shot a 200/15x and a 199/14x.

 

[Dgd6mm]

OAL 2.450" , 75 grain Amax, 23.2 grains of H4895.

 

[Ned Ludd]

80 gr bullets and under are fine for 300 yd, or even 600 yd if the wind conditions are mild. Otherwise, you're giving up way too much to most .308s in F-TR. If you want to find out what your .223 is really capable of in F-TR, try the 90 VLDs or SMK 90s. Typical loads consist of either Varget or H4895, with velocities in the 2820 to 2850 fps range from a 30" barrel (a minimum 7-twist is necessary for these bullets).

 

[boltman223]

I used 24.7 grains of varget with 80 smk's in my old rifle and that got me about 2880 fps. It may be giving up a some wind drift, but it's all I had and it did fairly well at 600. I even used it at 1000 yds a few times.

My newest rifle is set up for 90's, but i also use 80smk's and that uses 23.8 grains of H4895. I don't know the velocity for sure, but if the e-targets are right my muzzle velocity woukd have to be about 2750 so there might be room for more powder/velocity.

I can't say much about the eld's. I think their listed BC's are quite a bit higher than the smk so that's attractive...

A 2.45 AOL would make me think it's a shorter throat, maybe a wylde chamber, just a guess.

 

[Mozella]

Of the fifteen best 5-shot groups out of my 1:7 Shilen barrel, twelve of them are with 80gr Berger VLDs using Vihtavuori N-140 producing velocities in the high 2600 fps to low 2700 fps range. These are mostly test groups from load development. Interestingly, the competition load I settled on uses a jump of .050" which is WAY more than I would have ever tested before reading Bergers information regarding seating depth for their VLDs. Read it if you haven't yet. Best precision was with a MV of around 2679 fps.

I also did careful testing of similar 80gr VLD loads using IMR 8208 XBR, VV N-540, Varget, CFE-223, and IMR 4895; however the VV N-140 proved to be the best powder as well as the most consistent, but only by a narrow margin.

I tried a variety of 80 and 90 gr bullets but nothing did nearly as well as the Berger 80 VLD from this barrel. This 1:7 twist barrel shot a few really good 5 shot groups using Berger 90's, but the very next group would prove to be horrible. In other words, the 90's were too inconsistent to use in competition, so I gave up on them until I replaced my 26" 1:7 twist barrel with a 30" 1: 6.5 twist. Now I shoot the Berger VLD 90's.

My friend who dug my old 1:7 twist barrel out of the dumpster now uses it quite successfully with the Berger VLD 80's and sometimes beats me in F-TR matches. He won't give it back.

The biggest take-away from this thread should be that you gotta' do your own testing. I would say give the Berger 80 VLD's a try. They have proven to be significantly more precise out of my 1:7 twist barrel; nothing else comes close. Don't put too much hope on the 90's; however, some folks report success out of a 1:7 barrel. I suspect you can find a good load using a variety of powders but in my experience the VLD 80's were a good deal better than any other bullet. Naturally, YMMV.

 

[duanehunter1]

Thanks for the input. 600yds is my max range. Was not sure if the 90's were going to be an advantage over 80's at this distance so I have not tried them. Honestly I have been using the SMK's because they are cheaper than the Berger's. I will buy some and start playing around with them. This rifle will shoot .5 moa with the 80smk RL-15 combo but when the temps warmed up I think my groups are opening up. I'm new to f class shooting this year. Shot a 575 11X and 579 13X first 2 matches and I think with improved wind reading skills I can do much better. Just want to make sure my ammo is the best it can be for this distance.

 

[jim_k]

80's are fine at 600 yds. Plenty accurate; yeah, somebody else might beat you, but maybe not. I have shot 80's with Hodgdon Benchmark 23.6 gr from a Lake City case. That was for a coated bullet. 10-shot group at 100 yds. 0.462" center-to-center from a 27" barrel. Use a temp-stable powder, Hodgdon Extreme (like Benchmark, H322, H4895, Varget) or IMR Enduron (IMR 4166). IMR 8208 XBR and IMR 4064 are also reportedly temp-stable. It's not just about environmental heat, but long strings of F/TR heat up the chamber, and that's when the temp-sensitive powders let you down. I had a match last summer, in which I shot a temp-sensitive powder, because that's what I had loaded. We shot 2 20-shot strings. For the combined 20 shots which were the first 10 shots of each string, I only lost 1 point, but for the combined 20 shots (the last 10 of both strings) I dropped 12 points. That was 80-grainers with IMR 3031. RL-15 has received variable ratings regarding temp-sensitivity, so I don't know for sure about that one.

 

[Laurie]

A lot of good advice there. As well as your 1 in 7" twist, sufficient chamber freebore is crucial especially if you try the 90s. (boltman 223, the 2.450" COAL wasn't from the OP, but from someone else - the OP hasn't mentioned COAL.) If you stick with the 80gn SMK, I'd never jam this bullet. It's one of the most jump tolerant designs around as per most older MKs. Jamming it raises pressures for no good reason and may see you with a bullet stuck in the throat and the action lug recesses full of powder kernels if you have to unload a live round for any reason.

 

[boltman223]

A lot of good advice there. As well as your 1 in 7" twist, sufficient chamber freebore is crucial especially if you try the 90s. (boltman 223, the 2.450" COAL wasn't from the OP, but from someone else - the OP hasn't mentioned COAL.) If you stick with the 80gn SMK, I'd never jam this bullet. It's one of the most jump tolerant designs around as per most older MKs. Jamming it raises pressures for no good reason and may see you with a bullet stuck in the throat and the action lug recesses full of powder kernels if you have to unload a live round for any reason.

Whoops, thanks. I guess I skimmed through too fast.

 

[Snuggie]

I used 24.7 grains of varget with 80 smk's in my old rifle and that got me about 2880 fps. It may be giving up a some wind drift, but it's all I had and it did fairly well at 600. I even used it at 1000 yds a few times.

My newest rifle is set up for 90's, but i also use 80smk's and that uses 23.8 grains of H4895. I don't know the velocity for sure, but if the e-targets are right my muzzle velocity woukd have to be about 2750 so there might be room for more powder/velocity.

I can't say much about the eld's. I think their listed BC's are quite a bit higher than the smk so that's attractive...

A 2.45 AOL would make me think it's a shorter throat, maybe a wylde chamber, just a guess.

You have a barrel chambered for 90's and you're shooting 80's with same?

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I reload the 80 SMK for some friends and family. They routinely place 1st and 2nd in local midrange matches with MA (but not HM) level scores. COAL is close to 2.500" (depending on the rifle) which is just not touching the lands. MV is 2850ish. Sure, 90s drift less in the wind, but the 80 SMK is very easy to load for, easy on brass (10+ firings), and just plain works very well. 23-24 grains of Varget seems to be the sweet spot.

We've thought long and hard about 90 grain bullets, but prefer not to face the reloading headaches and shorter brass life. The 80 SMK just keeps bringing home the bacon at 600 yards and closer. One of my buddies loves it so much they are planning to try it at 1000 at the next opportunity.

 

[boltman223]

You have a barrel chambered for 90's and you're shooting 80's with same?

Yep, they both shoot great I just have a bunch of 80's. I only had small amount of 90's when I first built the rifle and couldn't get anymore either. That's what led me to start using 80's

I think shooting 80's is good practice too.

 

[Snuggie]

I shot the 80's for a couple of years. 7.7 Tw. Shot two HM scores (589-29X) but not back to back. Put a 6.5tw on and chambered for 90's. After a break in match I did a 200-14X string. I'm good with that,and what's to come.

 

[boltman223]

I reload the 80 SMK for some friends and family. They routinely place 1st and 2nd in local midrange matches with MA (but not HM) level scores. COAL is close to 2.500" (depending on the rifle) which is just not touching the lands. MV is 2850ish. Sure, 90s drift less in the wind, but the 80 SMK is very easy to load for, easy on brass (10+ firings), and just plain works very well. 23-24 grains of Varget seems to be the sweet spot.

We've thought long and hard about 90 grain bullets, but prefer not to face the reloading headaches and shorter brass life. The 80 SMK just keeps bringing home the bacon at 600 yards and closer. One of my buddies loves it so much they are planning to try it at 1000 at the next opportunity.

I've shot 80 smk's a handful of times at 1000 yds in Bismarck, which is a pretty challenging range. I think I could easily lose two more points than if i made the same call with a 308. Its fun though.

 

[50bmg1979]

Thanks for the input. 600yds is my max range. Was not sure if the 90's were going to be an advantage over 80's at this distance so I have not tried them. Honestly I have been using the SMK's because they are cheaper than the Berger's. I will buy some and start playing around with them. This rifle will shoot .5 moa with the 80smk RL-15 combo but when the temps warmed up I think my groups are opening up. I'm new to f class shooting this year. Shot a 575 11X and 579 13X first 2 matches and I think with improved wind reading skills I can do much better. Just want to make sure my ammo is the best it can be for this distance.

Looks like you are shooting at Borden. Good luck with your load.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Thanks for the input. 600yds is my max range. Was not sure if the 90's were going to be an advantage over 80's at this distance so I have not tried them. Honestly I have been using the SMK's because they are cheaper than the Berger's. I will buy some and start playing around with them. This rifle will shoot .5 moa with the 80smk RL-15 combo but when the temps warmed up I think my groups are opening up. I'm new to f class shooting this year. Shot a 575 11X and 579 13X first 2 matches and I think with improved wind reading skills I can do much better. Just want to make sure my ammo is the best it can be for this distance.

It's hard to beat the 80 SMK for building wind reading skills, especially with a 0.5 MOA load or better. A higher BC bullet with less "inherent" accuracy (short range) tends to make it harder, because shooters tend to assume that horizontal displacements are dominated by wind drift and this is much more likely to be true with a lower BC bullet with great inherent accuracy. I often use 55 VMAX loads in 222 or 223 for new shooters to magnify wind drift effects for skill building.

As your wind reading skills improve, the 80 SMK should get you into the high 580s regularly. The 590s are much more challenging, but combining well honed wind reading skills and a bullet with a higher BC than the 80 SMK should get you there. Pairing Varget with the 80 SMK should reduce temperature sensitivity compared with RL15. Still, don't let the cartridge cook in the chamber before firing - that is likely to drop points with high hits at 12 o'clock even with Varget.

 

[duanehunter1]

Looks like you are shooting at Borden. Good luck with your load.

Yes, it is Borden. The people there have been really nice. I really enjoy shooting there.

 

[Dgd6mm]

As I mentioned I shoot the 75 Amax, most know it has been discontinued. I've been thinking of giving the Berger 80.5 a go. My barrel was throated for the 80 Amax.


Don Dunlap

 

[benchracer]

As I mentioned I shoot the 75 Amax, most know it has been discontinued. I've been thinking of giving the Berger 80.5 a go. My barrel was throated for the 80 Amax.


Don Dunlap

The 75 AMAX isn't really discontinued. Like many other bullets, it has been transitioned over to the ELD/M line, with the new plastic tips. Otherwise, same bullet. I am still shooting up my remaining supply of AMAX's. The Hornady 75 AMAX/ELD-M's are a favorite of mine.