.223 AR barrel question for Long Range

[XL105]

I am looking at purchasing AR barrel for long range shooting. I currently have a 18” KM tactical barrel that I shoot out to 600 yards using 69gr SMK. I’m satisfied with its performance. Not a high end barrel but gets the job done
I would like to build a 600-800 yard 223 gun. Shooting mid 70 grain bullets.
I’m looking for advice on barrel manufacture, twist, chamber, along with BCG to achieve this goal. Mid range price tag, or slightly higher.

 

[jelenko]

You won't go wrong with this one:
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/sh...ompetition-rifle-barrels.html?barrel_length=8

Your existing BCG is just fine.
You will want to 'bed' the barrel extension to the receiver. You can use a low/medium strength loctite. Some people use metal shims - but too intricate for me.

 

[XL105]

You won't go wrong with this one:
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/sh...ompetition-rifle-barrels.html?barrel_length=8

Your existing BCG is just fine.
You will want to 'bed' the barrel extension to the receiver. You can use a low/medium strength loctite. Some people use metal shims - but too intricate for me.

8 twist is fast enough? Since it will be only shooting 70s wouldn’t 7 be optimal?
It’s in the price range that I want to spend though.

 

[mtncwru]

8 twist is fast enough? Since it will be only shooting 70s wouldn’t 7 be optimal?
It’s in the price range that I want to spend though.

Were it me I'd go for a 7.5 or 7 twist, since that will get you comfortable stability with everything, including the 80s if you want to go that route. 8-twist will probably be OK for the bullets you're describing, but faster will definitely be good to go. And I'm always a Wylde chamber

Whatever twist you go for, I agree with @jelenko that calling up White Oak is the easy button for ya. Any of their barrels are going to be great, and they won't steer you wrong on what to buy.

 

[XL105]

Were it me I'd go for a 7.5 or 7 twist, since that will get you comfortable stability with everything, including the 80s if you want to go that route. 8-twist will probably be OK for the bullets you're describing, but faster will definitely be good to go. And I'm always a Wylde chamber

Whatever twist you go for, I agree with @jelenko that calling up White Oak is the easy button for ya. Any of their barrels are going to be great, and they won't steer you wrong on what to buy.

Unfortunately it doesn’t look like they carry 7/7.5 twist barrrels

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Satern has a cut rifled 7.7 twist. Under 500$. Wyde chamber.

 

[mtncwru]

Unfortunately it doesn’t look like they carry 7/7.5 twist barrrels

In that case I sit corrected: if White Oak is saying that a 1:8 is good enough for a .223 match rifle barrel then that should be fine for your use case. Bit surprised they don't have them in the longer barrels, but I know sourcing the longer blanks can be tough.

You can always give them a call, too. MaryLee was extremely helpful when I was putting together my match guns and my Service Rifle.

 

[charlie b]

I know a 1:8 would be ok for 77SMK's since they worked fine in my 1:9 barrel (22" bolt gun). Just may have to keep vel on the high side. FWIW, 75ELDM bullets were not as stable as they are a bit longer.

I'd talk to the barrel maker about 80gn bullets, especially the longer Bergers. They will know and can probably advise you on what throat length they cut in the chamber. Also what lengths need to be single fed due to magazine oal restrictions.

 

[jelenko]

8 twist is fast enough? Since it will be only shooting 70s wouldn’t 7 be optimal?
It’s in the price range that I want to spend though.

In a 24" barrel, 8 twist is the twist of choice for 80 grain bullets.

In 20" barrels with ~ 100 fps less velocity, 1 in 7.5 or 7.7 is considered idea.

WOA also sells a 26" barrel in 1:8 which would give you about another 50 fps.

 

[jelenko]

I know a 1:8 would be ok for 77SMK's since they worked fine in my 1:9 barrel (22" bolt gun). Just may have to keep vel on the high side. FWIW, 75ELDM bullets were not as stable as they are a bit longer.

I'd talk to the barrel maker about 80gn bullets, especially the longer Bergers. They will know and can probably advise you on what throat length they cut in the chamber. Also what lengths need to be single fed due to magazine oal restrictions.

Good point about longer bullets.

An 80vld is still stable and accurate, but you'll lose a bit of BC [~ 4%].

But VLD's are much more sensitive to seating depth and only have just a bit more BC - 80.5 is listed at G1 of .441; the 80 vld is listed at G1 of .455.

 

[wer0206]

I am looking at purchasing AR barrel for long range shooting. I currently have a 18” KM tactical barrel that I shoot out to 600 yards using 69gr SMK. I’m satisfied with its performance. Not a high end barrel but gets the job done
I would like to build a 600-800 yard 223 gun. Shooting mid 70 grain bullets.
I’m looking for advice on barrel manufacture, twist, chamber, along with BCG to achieve this goal. Mid range price tag, or slightly higher.

What length barrel and what's your budget? You'd be good with either 7 or 8 twist

I would recommend using a thermofit upper or bedding the barrel into the upper with loctite 620 if it's sloppy. I'd also get a headspaced bolt with the barrel if it's an option.

For bolt carrier you can get an "enhanced" one that has more material in the rear to prevent carrier tilting which is supposed to help with accuracy/repeatability (I like the CMC ones linked below).

• Lantac Enhanced Nitride BCG ($202)
• Young Manufacturing National Match Chrome BCG ($300)
• Radian Enhanced Nitride BCG ($179)
• Midwest Industries Enhanced Black Nitride BCG ($130)
• CMC Enhanced 5.56 BCG Nitrided (# 81631) ($150)

Re: barrels here are some "mid tier" suggestions (button rifled):

• PVA Osprey 18” or 20" 223 Wylde 416R 1:8 SPR Profile ($400)
• White Oak 18" 223 Wylde 416R SPR Barrel ($325)
• Craddock 18" RTR .223 Wylde 416R Mk12 Mod1 ($367)
• X-Caliber Custom AR Barrel 223 Wylde 416R ($380)

Higher end options (cut rifled):

• Ross Precision Machine (Paul Ross) (Shop Phone 1-850-928-4300)
• Geissele Service Rifle 20” 223 Wylde Cut Rifled Barrel ($550)
• Geissele SPR Cut Rifled 5.56 1:7 18” Barrel (# 05-3184) ($450)
• Proof Research 20" 223 Wylde 1:7 Barrel (# AR15SS-223W-143438) ($650)
• Satern 223 Wylde 20” Cut Rifled 1:7.7 ($473, +$68 for headspaced bolt, $541)
• Craddock Custom Bartlein 223 Wylde Barrel ($727) (+ $65 for headspaced bolt)

 

[dfrosch]

8 twist is fast enough? Since it will be only shooting 70s wouldn’t 7 be optimal?
It’s in the price range that I want to spend though.

There are some 7 twist barrels, but they're 20" long.

Shop High Power / Match Competition | White Oak Armament

Find the best selection and prices on High Power / Match Competition Barrels

www.whiteoakarmament.com

 

[XL105]

X-Caliber Custom AR Barrel 223 Wylde 416R ($380)

This might be it. Can you explain the difference between 5 groove and 6?
I’m going to look through the other barrels you sent, along with a couple others; but X might be the one.

 

[Walt Krafft]

3, 4, 5, 6 groove really doesnt matter. They will all shoot just fine.

 

[LVLAaron]

Get a white oak barrel... Under new ownership, I'm not sure if they still have White Oak Precision barrels - these are Bartlein or Krieger. Wylde chamber.

 

[SKWERLZ]

I’d definitely look at the white oak barrels, another good candidate is the rainier UM barrels.
7 or 8 twist is fine for 75’77’s

I’ve shot my 18” rainier UM SPR barrel out to 1000 often and it’s pretty good but a bit longer would be nice.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Before you do that, try some Berger 77 gr OTM with some AR-Comp. You might be surprised at what it will do.

 

[mtncwru]

Get a white oak barrel... Under new ownership, I'm not sure if they still have White Oak Precision barrels - these are Bartlein or Krieger. Wylde chamber.

Last I asked, White Oak used Wilson blanks for their house-brand barrels. Anything Barlein, Krieger, Shilen, etc. is labeled on the listing, with a higher price to match.

I've always just used their in-house and been very happy.

 

[wer0206]

This might be it. Can you explain the difference between 5 groove and 6?
I’m going to look through the other barrels you sent, along with a couple others; but X might be the one.

I have barrels with 5 and 6 groove and they all shoot well. There’s some that say 5 is more inherently accurate due to being more symmetrical but I don’t think most can shoot the difference even if its a thing. @FrankG may have some good feedback on this question, he’s way more of an expert than I am.

Any theoretical edge from 5-groove (less bullet jacket deformation due to odd-numbered lands opposing grooves, plus radiused/shallow land edges in true 5R profiles) is often lost in manufacturing tolerances, lapping quality, twist rate, ammo consistency, and shooter variables.

There might be a slight edge to 5 groove re: cleaning though. The radiused/shallow transitions between lands and grooves reduce sharp corners where carbon or copper fouling can build up, making the barrel easier and quicker to clean.

 

[jelenko]

@FrankG may have some good feedback on this question, he’s way more of an expert than I am.

As I recall, he said he's found no difference in accuracy. That they make the 5R because some people want them.