223 and Berger 85.5 LR Hybrid

[kyotekiller25]

Well based off what I see then, looks like I need to adjust seating depth.

 

[DLT]

I see what you're saying.

So if you look at my target with 24.5-24.8 you can see how 24.5/24.6/24.8 were all pretty close to POI. However for some reason 24.7 was not. Although it did produce the best group and lowest ES.

I mean like I said before, consistent 5 shot 3/4 MOA isn't horrible, it's just not what I think the rifle is capable of, or should be doing. Maybe it might get a little better with 1x fired brass also as this is all virgin.

I could also revisit 25.2-25.4 at around 3040fps now that my bolt has been bushed, and also try the 450s.

Still have a few more things I'd like to try and test out before I completely rule out the 75g ELDM. It's a damn good bullet that is really unbeatable IMO given everything it can do, and it shoots consistently. I'd like to load them all up and shoot at the same target at 300 yards and see where they all land what they do also. I don't really care for shooting 100 yards that much because it just doesn't seem to tell you as much over the long run and everything is always so close/tight to see the differences. 300 yards is easy to see the good and bad differences if that makes sense.

I shoot the 108 ELDMs in a 6 creed and 180s in a 7-300 Win Mag at 10 off, and they both shoot lights out, 1/2 MOA or better everytime with very minimal load development.

I forgot to add I'm in EO so summers are like 110 and winters are 0. So about a 110 degree difference on the extremes side of summer/winter. Hoping that doesn't effect N540 to much.

Original plan was to just run H4895, but you just can't find it anymore, which is what led me to try N540. I don't particularly care for Varget. Never even tried it or used it. Just felt there were always better powders than varget, plus everyone and their mom shoots varget so availability was always a concern.

Not 1 thing wrong with varget in the 223. There’s a reason it’s always near the top in several calibers. Dont be hard headed and shoots what’s available where you are. Varget is plentiful where I am

 

[kyotekiller25]

Well thats the thing, varget is also non existent locally. Haven't seen it in a good 3 years.

I mean I probably would try it these days now that I have a legitimate reason and cartridge for it. But you kinda just have to make do with what's available these days ya know what I mean?

I've got about 7 or 8 shops within 30 miles of me that I regularly frequent and check in. Powder and primers just aren't something I buy online due to shipping/hazmat prices. So if I can't find it locally, I find something else. Simple as that.

There's about 20 good applicable powders for 75s in a 223. I'm not going to just concentrate on 1 or 2 that are unobtainable, IE H4895/Varget.

I don't think they even make IMR8208XBR anymore. I have 1 # of it left. I've got 3# of IMR4895 but once it's gone, it's unobtainable also these days. I've got 1# of H4895 and it's non existent anymore. I've got 6# of Benchmark which is ok for 75s, but better suited to the light bullets. And I've got 5# of N540. I can also get N140/N150 but haven't decided if I want to try one of those yet or not. And I don't care for ball powders because I individually weigh each charge on a balance beam, and I just hate the mess of ball powders. Never have cared for them at all. They would be my absolute last choice.

 

[Cfshooter]

Well thats the thing, varget is also non existent locally. Haven't seen it in a good 3 years.

I mean I probably would try it these days now that I have a legitimate reason and cartridge for it. But you kinda just have to make do with what's available these days ya know what I mean?

I've got about 7 or 8 shops within 30 miles of me that I regularly frequent and check in. Powder and primers just aren't something I buy online due to shipping/hazmat prices. So if I can't find it locally, I find something else. Simple as that.

There's about 20 good applicable powders for 75s in a 223. I'm not going to just concentrate on 1 or 2 that are unobtainable, IE H4895/Varget.

I don't think they even make IMR8208XBR anymore. I have 1 # of it left. I've got 3# of IMR4895 but once it's gone, it's unobtainable also these days. I've got 1# of H4895 and it's non existent anymore. I've got 6# of Benchmark which is ok for 75s, but better suited to the light bullets. And I've got 5# of N540. I can also get N140/N150 but haven't decided if I want to try one of those yet or not. And I don't care for ball powders because I individually weigh each charge on a balance beam, and I just hate the mess of ball powders. Never have cared for them at all. They would be my absolute last choice.

N140 is a good choice and very close to Varget. I would give it a try, if it doesn’t work, it will work in other combos.

 

[kyotekiller25]

N140 is a good choice and very close to Varget. I would give it a try, if it doesn’t work, it will work in other combos.

So I wanted to show you the ladder test I did at 300 to get an idea of velocity/pressure and maybe see where a good place was to start. 5 of the 6 shots went into 1" so I was thinking gosh dang, this N540 is going to be MONEY! So from that ladder I decided 24.7 was probably a good place to be.

So then I loaded 24.4-24.8 in .1 increments at 3 shots each to nail the charge down and shot them at 200. Results were decent, anywhere from about 1/2-1 MOA. The ES from 24.5-24.8 was around 17, and 24.7 ended up shooting the best with an ES of 6. Even though the POI wasn't where the other charges landed.

So from there I just decided to do a seating depth test with 24.7 and see if I could tighten up the little flyers. All loafing had been done at 10 off prior to this point. So I loaded 5 each at 10/15/20 off and shot them at 100. They all basically shot 3/4 MOA with no real change in group size or shape that I can tell. POI looks decent also.

So that got me thinking and looking back at my original ladder test and might revisit 25.2-25.4 as those 2 shots at 300 were .75" and the ES was only 7. My only concern is that it's not to far off the 25.6g load that pierced a primer at 3085fps. But that was also before I had my bolt bushed which seems to make a huge difference. No more cratering issues at all, and haven't pierced another primer.

What are your guys thoughts after seeing basically the full work up here with N540 and the 75s? I still have 2 other primers (450s/BR4s) I can try to see if that helps any also. I also might try 5 off just because I can to see if that might help, and also maybe try a bit deeper at 25 and 30 off also.

Really want to try and get these to shoot since I basically already stocked up on 5# N540 and 15 boxes of 75 ELDMs. Not ready to give up quite yet. Just want to throw everything out here for other thoughts and suggestions. Thanks

 

[DLT]

Try n140, you have it and can get it

 

[Cfshooter]

So I wanted to show you the ladder test I did at 300 to get an idea of velocity/pressure and maybe see where a good place was to start. 5 of the 6 shots went into 1" so I was thinking gosh dang, this N540 is going to be MONEY! So from that ladder I decided 24.7 was probably a good place to be.

So then I loaded 24.4-24.8 in .1 increments at 3 shots each to nail the charge down and shot them at 200. Results were decent, anywhere from about 1/2-1 MOA. The ES from 24.5-24.8 was around 17, and 24.7 ended up shooting the best with an ES of 6. Even though the POI wasn't where the other charges landed.

So from there I just decided to do a seating depth test with 24.7 and see if I could tighten up the little flyers. All loafing had been done at 10 off prior to this point. So I loaded 5 each at 10/15/20 off and shot them at 100. They all basically shot 3/4 MOA with no real change in group size or shape that I can tell. POI looks decent also.

So that got me thinking and looking back at my original ladder test and might revisit 25.2-25.4 as those 2 shots at 300 were .75" and the ES was only 7. My only concern is that it's not to far off the 25.6g load that pierced a primer at 3085fps. But that was also before I had my bolt bushed which seems to make a huge difference. No more cratering issues at all, and haven't pierced another primer.

What are your guys thoughts after seeing basically the full work up here with N540 and the 75s? I still have 2 other primers (450s/BR4s) I can try to see if that helps any also. I also might try 5 off just because I can to see if that might help, and also maybe try a bit deeper at 25 and 30 off also.

Really want to try and get these to shoot since I basically already stocked up on 5# N540 and 15 boxes of 75 ELDMs. Not ready to give up quite yet. Just want to throw everything out here for other thoughts and suggestions. Thanks

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I probably would have chosen 24.5 if I had to stick with that powder, but if I had other powder I would have tried it after that charge test. I would expect more consistency than it showed.

 

[bpm990d]

I wish these ELDMs would shoot better given their BC/speed/cheapness/availability/and killing ability. And I kinda screwed up by buying 1500 of them before I really knew they would shoot. I just figured they would shoot out of the Bartlein, or I would make them shoot.

I have not shot the 75s, but have shot a lot of the 80s & 88s in our Wylde chambered Service Rifles. We found that they really like to jump. Try .040 jump and see if the groups tighten up.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I probably would have chosen 24.5 if I had to stick with that powder, but if I had other powder I would have tried it after that charge test. I would expect more consistency than it showed.

Any particular reason why you would have went with the 24.5?

I'll definitely give it a shot, can't hurt nothing.

Will also try seating deeper from 20 to 40 off in 5 increments. With both charges

 

[kyotekiller25]

I have not shot the 75s, but have shot a lot of the 80s & 88s in our Wylde chambered Service Rifles. We found that they really like to jump. Try .040 jump and see if the groups tighten up.

I will do that. Definitely worth a shot at this point. Got plenty of bullets and powder.

 

[Cfshooter]

Any particular reason why you would have went with the 24.5?

I'll definitely give it a shot, can't hurt nothing.

Will also try seating deeper from 20 to 40 off in 5 increments. With both charges

I see a small trend from 24.4-24.6 and 24.5 right in the middle. 24.7 breaks the trend.

 

[jepp2]

Berger claims the 85.5 will stabilize in an 8 twist according to their website? Not sure if that's the case or not.

I don't know what elevation you are shooting at. I put 3,000 in their stability calculator, you can put in your exact elevation. But here is the result for 2950 fps and 8T. Any time you are under 1.5, you might benefit from choosing a different bullet.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I don't know what elevation you are shooting at. I put 3,000 in their stability calculator, you can put in your exact elevation. But here is the result for 2950 fps and 8T. Any time you are under 1.5, you might benefit from choosing a different bullet.

View attachment 1548171

Ya I think I'm gonna scrap the 85.5 idea anyway. I'm only at 500ft ASL.

I'm gonna keep trying with these 75 ELDMs. I'm pretty close to where I want to be with them, so won't give up just yet. Between 3 different range sessions I've been 1/3, 1/2, and 3/4 MOA. So that puts the average just a hair over 1/2.

If I switch bullets, going to go with either the 77 TMK, 80 SMK, or 80.5 Berger.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Ok, so just got back from the range with another seating depth test. Did 3 shot groups at 5 to 40 off in 5 increments. Hoping 25 off is repeatable as it's 1/4 MOA with an ES of 7.

 

[Cfshooter]

Ok, so just got back from the range with another seating depth test. Did 3 shot groups at 5 to 40 off in 5 increments. Hoping 25 off is repeatable as it's 1/4 MOA with an ES of 7.
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I think that’s the best you are going to get with that combo. (I would have went 24.5 though ). 24.7 was the outlier in your charge test.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I think that’s the best you are going to get with that combo. (I would have went 24.5 though ). 24.7 was the outlier in your charge test.

I can do 24.5 this next go round. Should it shoot at 25 off also, or would I have to go through the whole searing depth again?

I would just load up say 10 each at 24.5/24.7 and shoot a 5 shot group at 100 and another 5 at 300 just to see how repeatable .025" off is. Or just shoot a 10 shot group at 300 with each?

I'm ready to get this load development done so I can load up a batch and start the real fun, which is 300-1K dope confirmation and start playing!!

Local PRS type match out to 900 in 2 weeks, I'd like to take it and see how she does!

 

[Cfshooter]

I can do 24.5 this next go round. Should it shoot at 25 off also, or would I have to go through the whole searing depth again?

I would just load up say 10 each at 24.5/24.7 and shoot a 5 shot group at 100 and another 5 at 300 just to see how repeatable .025" off is.

That’s a good idea. I would load 15 of one and 10 of the other (5 for foulers) and then just send 2 ten shot groups at 100. 300 may bring in other variables on you.

 

[LBEdgin]

Give the 85.5gr Berger's with AR Comp, mine loves it. 1-7 twist Wilson barrel. Shooting in the .2's @ 100yds.