.223 700P vs SPS Tactical for a 300-600yd gun

[rdjordan]

I want to further my shooting skills and I feel that the 223 is the way to go due to the much lower factory ammo and reloading component costs.

I really wanted a .308 so I could reach out to 1000yd effectively but I think that I will be able to shoot more and have more fun with the cheaper ammo costs of the 223.

First let me state my reason for comparing the 700P and the SPS Tactical. Both of these guns have the 1:9 twist that I want to help stabilize the heavier bullets at longer ranges.

Having said this, the differences I have found in these two guns is as follows: the 700P has a 26" barrel and a better stock at about $950. The SPS tactical has a 20" barrel and a Hogue stock at about $600.

My question is this: will the 20" barrel achieve enough velocity at the top end of my range to still be accurate or do I need the 26" barrel to be accurate to 600yd and maybe more? Also, is this difference worth the extra $350?

I would like to have a gun I could build off of so I would probably get a new stock for the gun in the future anyway so the quality of the stock does not concern me as much.

PS.
Is there any way to tell the difference between a SPS Varmint and a 700P without checking the twist and without the stock? At my local gun shop, they claim to have a used 223 700P for $800 out the door. The gun has a 26" barrel and a Hogue stock just like the SPS tacticals. I want to be sure the barrel is actually 1:9 and not the 1:12 like the varmint models.

Thanks for the help,

Durham

 

[dreever]

700P have a Parkerized finish on the barrel and action. If I had to chose between the two it would be the 700P since I have one in .223.

Danny

 

[jonbearman]

make them prove the twist rate using a cleaning rod and a tight fitting patch.You push the rod in about 1/2 way or so(put a little oil on the patch for a good feel) and pull it out a couple inches and stop.Mark the cleaning rod at the crown with a piece of tape folded around the rod so it looks like a flag.Then start to pull it out slowly and watch to see when the flag rotates 360 degrees and stop.Now measure between the tape and crown and it should be 9 inches for 1 in 9 and 12 if it is 1 in 12 and so on.The real HS Precision police stock is a good solid stock and shouldnt be a problem at advanced distance.You can always add a accuracy asset from sinclairs to make it a flat bottom and it will ride your bags like a benchrest gun by adding teflon tape to the underside of the buttstock where it rides in the bag.I have 4 of the police stocks and love them.Also I wonder if there isnt a difference in the barrels between the 2 guns as far as quality goes.It is your call.

 

[jonbearman]

You will get better velocity with a longer barrel however with todays better powders you should be able to get acceptable velocity with a 20 inch barrel.I personally like the 26 incher do to rifle balance.

 

[Nomercy]

I would recommend the 700P. The parkerizing, the longer barrel, and the far superior stock are enough arguement in my book. The SPS stock is a joke compared to the 700P stock.

An example of the importance of barrel length: Last summer my brother-in-law wanted to buy 500rnds of my .223rem "Pet loads" and a copy of my "Cheat Sheet" for a P-dog trip. My homebake pushes a 50grn pill to 3450fps from my Bushmaster Varminter Special Stainless with a 24" 1:9" tube. His rifle, a DPMS Lo-Pro Classic with a 16" 1:9" tube. His rifle liked the load and grouped very well, but when we ran it across the Chrony, he was over 250fps slower. No Cheat Sheet for him!!

IMHO, those 20" barrels are only designed to look cool and sell rifles to arm-chair snipers. They're great for police/swat snipers because of the reduced weight, but they're not designed for super long range precision. 600yrds isn't THAT far, but it's far enough. My pet load .223 drops 18MOA at 600yrds. My balistic calculator predicts it'd drop 21.5MOA from my bro-in-law's rifle. That's 21" of extra drop. 20" tubes work great for guys that need a highly maneuverable rifle that only needs to run 100-400yrds, but I guarantee you'll notice a difference at 600yrds.

Another word of caution if you're shooting the .223 at 600yrds... Your scope will need at least 40MOA of adjustment, otherwise you'll need an angled base. Even my pet load (fast for a .223) is dropping 18MOA from 100yrd zero at 600yrds.

Plus, you better be pretty competent in doping the wind. A .223 drifts as much at 600yrds as a .300WSM at 1,000.

That's not to say not to go for it, but keep those things in mind. I LOVE throwing those little pills way out there after coyotes, but I'll admit, it's a lot easier with my .300WM R700 PSS than with my AR-15.

 

[Johnboy]

you can all so look into a 5R in a 223.they come with a 1:9 twist H&S stock and all stainless.will even add that mine shoots a 69gn NCC very well out to 300 yards.te cost is even around the same as a 700p.

 

[rdjordan]

I went by my gun shop today and saw that they had a .308 700P for $850, so if they can get a 223 700P for that same price then I think it will be worth extra $200 over the SPS to have the long barrel and much better stock.

I have looked into the 5r but it is over $1000 I think. I have a Nikon Buckmasters 6-18 Mil-dot that will probably be going on this rifle to start with. Using this scope I want to keep the rifle, base, rings, and some ammo under the $1000 mark.

Plus, you better be pretty competent in doping the wind. A .223 drifts as much at 600yrds as a .300WSM at 1,000.

That's not to say not to go for it, but keep those things in mind. I LOVE throwing those little pills way out there after coyotes, but I'll admit, it's a lot easier with my .300WM R700 PSS than with my AR-15.

I am just starting out in long range shooting. I would much rather have a .308 but I think that I will be better off with a .223 because of lower ammo and reloading component costs. That way I will be able to shoot more and hone my skills. Although the .223 will be harder to dope, if I can master it then I fill that it will help me with other calibers.

 

[alf]

IMHO, those 20" barrels are only designed to look cool and sell rifles to arm-chair snipers. They're great for police/swat snipers because of the reduced weight, but they're not designed for super long range precision. 600yrds isn't THAT far, but it's far enough. My pet load .223 drops 18MOA at 600yrds.

Funny,

I've got a 700 with a 8 twist Rock, 18 1/2" long, that shoots the 75 A-Max at 2900.

200 yard zero, 12 3/4 MOA drop at 600.

 

[leakeyjohn]

There is a good reason that long range shooters use larger bore sizes and heavier bullets. Were I live we have multiple 1,000 yard ranges and a larger bullet is much better than a lighter bullet driven faster initially. Yes that does increase costs etc. That is the reason I stay under 600 yards, I am retired and she who must be obeyed does not share my priorities for shooting

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Lets see, 13 years ago a fellow had a question about Rem 700 models!

Frank