223/223A Loads Less Common Powders and Varmint Bullets

[urbanrifleman]

I am going to be posting some results from my testing, (and my friend Terry's testing) with the 223A. We are testing some newer powders (I like LT32 a lot) getting ready to go shoot pdogs. So, not necessarily new in the sense of new to the market, but more to new to users in the application. For example, Terry has been getting some seriously impressive results with H4895 and 52/55 grain bullets (like 3600 FPS bugholes with 52 grain bullets).

Using some of these newer powders we are seeing speeds with the 223A that are more like a 22-250 speeds from back in the day. I am guessing part of this is the fact that we are able to easily run NATO 556 pressures in LC/WCC/Lapua brass and the brass doesn't even seem to care at all. We use the CCI 450 primer and I have yet to puncture a primer. Although a bit of flattening of the primer pressure levels is where they really seem to shoot.

Anyway I just thought I would throw this out there to see if anyone wants to share

 

[urbanrifleman]

Here is my fireforning test with Lt32 and 52 grain Fowlers. 24.7 grains really shoots tiny.

 

[urbanrifleman]

24.7 works better with a thin primer (I was fireforming pulled Lapua ammo that I bought in bulk and it had a pretty thin primer) but with a magnum thick primer I would not hesitate to shot the 25.6 node.

 

[10at6]

Never seen a 223 or AI bolt or gas gun that wouldn't shoot with AA 2015 and the light bullets.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Never seen a 223 or AI bolt or gas gun that wouldn't shoot with AA 2015 and the light bullets.

I totally agree and the new Canadian AA2015 is even better. LT32 is essentially tweaked AA2015.... I am not unsure there is any difference at all.

 

[bloc]

I totally agree and the new Canadian AA2015 is even better. LT32 is essentially tweaked AA2015.... I am not unsure there is any difference at all.

Interesting. I had no idea that LT-32 and AA2015 (which I'v never shot) were the same or that close to being the same.

I found LT-32 when years ago I couldn't find any IMR 4198. I now use LT-32 exclusively in my .223s and love it. With 24 grains of it, I get 3700+ fps with a 40 gr Nosler BT in my LRPV. No pressure signs, great accuracy. What's not to love?

 

[urbanrifleman]

Interesting. I had no idea that LT-32 and AA2015 (which I'v never shot) were the same or that close to being the same.

I found LT-32 when years ago I couldn't find any IMR 4198. I now use LT-32 exclusively in my .223s and love it. With 24 grains of it, I get 3700+ fps with a 40 gr Nosler BT in my LRPV. No pressure signs, great accuracy. What's not to love?

I can't really tell any difference. I think Accurate just got people to start shooting it because they changed the name and Bruno marketed it. They say its a faster lot, but I am not sure it is...

The old Eastern Block Czech AA2015 powder was excellent but this Canadian powder is just outstanding. I think maybe their was a stigma about shooting it against N133 in the PPC but things are changing. Same with R10x which I think is an equally outstanding powder and almost the same burn rate and it historically got no respect.

 

[bloc]

Urban, here's a piece on the history of LT-32 I think you'll find of interest. http://www.benchrest.com/showthread.php?82133-New-western-powders-lt-32-test-results

Are you going to be testing IMR 4166? I'd love to see it.

For reasons I have yet to fathom, I picked up a bottle of it and created 3 test loads for my .243 Win. of 5 shots each @ 100 yards.

1) 55 Nosler BT-----------44.3 gr. IMR 4166---------.298 MOA
2) 58 Hor VMax-----------44.0 gr. IMR 4166---------.75 MOA
3) 70 Speer TNT HPFB----41.0 gr IMR 4166---------.51 MOA

 

[dolek]

I can't really tell any difference. I think Accurate just got people to start shooting it because they changed the name and Bruno marketed it. They say its a faster lot, but I am not sure it is...

The old Eastern Block Czech AA2015 powder was excellent but this Canadian powder is just outstanding. I think maybe their was a stigma about shooting it against N133 in the PPC but things are changing. Same with R10x which I think is an equally outstanding powder and almost the same burn rate and it historically got no respect.

I agree,R10x has worked great for me with the lighter bullets in the .223 . I started using it with the 20 Tac with success so gave it a whirl,glad I did .

 

[urbanrifleman]

Urban, here's a piece on the history of LT-32 I think you'll find of interest. http://www.benchrest.com/showthread.php?82133-New-western-powders-lt-32-test-results

Are you going to be testing IMR 4166? I'd love to see it.

For reasons I have yet to fathom, I picked up a bottle of it and created 3 test loads for my .243 Win. of 5 shots each @ 100 yards.

1) 55 Nosler BT-----------44.3 gr. IMR 4166---------.298 MOA
2) 58 Hor VMax-----------44.0 gr. IMR 4166---------.75 MOA
3) 70 Speer TNT HPFB----41.0 gr IMR 4166---------.51 MOA

As I understand it this is the American made Varget. I was told by someone in the know that Hogdon is transitioning to domestic made lines. The Enduron line is the beginning of the transition.

As far as the story of the Lt32 I'm not sure I give much creadance to the marketing. I went through 16 pounds of Canadian aa2015 and then I got 16 pounds of lt32 of there is any difference it's maybe a few tenths of a grain. They certainly appear to be the same powder and both say made in Canada.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Urban, here's a piece on the history of LT-32 I think you'll find of interest. http://www.benchrest.com/showthread.php?82133-New-western-powders-lt-32-test-results

Are you going to be testing IMR 4166? I'd love to see it.

For reasons I have yet to fathom, I picked up a bottle of it and created 3 test loads for my .243 Win. of 5 shots each @ 100 yards.

1) 55 Nosler BT-----------44.3 gr. IMR 4166---------.298 MOA
2) 58 Hor VMax-----------44.0 gr. IMR 4166---------.75 MOA
3) 70 Speer TNT HPFB----41.0 gr IMR 4166---------.51 MOA

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/imr-4166-in-6br.3861373/

 

[bloc]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/imr-4166-in-6br.3861373/

Thank you! I guess I missed that thread and I appreciate you bringing it to my attention!

Sorry to have inconvenienced you!

 

[bloc]

As I understand it this is the American made Varget. I was told by someone in the know that Hogdon is transitioning to domestic made lines. The Enduron line is the beginning of the transition.

As far as the story of the Lt32 I'm not sure I give much creadance to the marketing. I went through 16 pounds of Canadian aa2015 and then I got 16 pounds of lt32 of there is any difference it's maybe a few tenths of a grain. They certainly appear to be the same powder and both say made in Canada.

Thanks again!

I just wanted to bring that thread to your attention.

I’m very appreciative of your opinion. I value it greatly.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Thank you! I guess I missed that thread and I appreciate you bringing it to my attention!

Sorry to have inconvenienced you!

Not an inconvenience, I love it!! I had not searched it until you mentioned it, and now I saying "hmmmmm interesting..."

I am very surprised no one is talking it up. I never liked how dirty Varget was and became a big fan of R15. Now with this new powder that is supposed to be USA made, have copper defouling added, and temperature resistance I may have to give it a hard look.

 

[urbanrifleman]

We are going to test IMR 8208, AR Comp also and compare them to H4895.

 

[bloc]

Urban, AmmoGuide's .223 Remington data includes 17 loads using IMR 4166, with bullets ranging from 50 to 90 grains. There's not much on the .223A.

I tend to use 40 grain bullets in my 22s, so I'll probably not try 4166 in my .223s, but I will try it again in my .243.

JFWIW.

 

[urbanrifleman]

My favorite 223/223a powders for 34-55 grain bullets.

LT32 (my current favorite)
AA2015 (I liked the Czech stuff and I like the Canadian even better and I think maybe LT32 and AA2015 are essentially the same or super close)
R10x (this is a great powder and I have no idea why it gets no respect)
H335 (hard to beat really)
N133 (awesome powder but I find it is no better than the others for the price)

 

[MrMajestic]

UR, no love for H-322? With Bart's Ultras it seems to place'um close together in my .223's...

 

[GrocMax]

If you want some extra speed AA2200 is the velocity king with the lightweight varmint bullets.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Powders we will test:

H4895
IMR 8208 (I believe that this powder is very similar to H4895, or might be right between LT32/AA2015/R10x/and H4895-Similar to N135)
Ar-Comp
CFE-223
AA2230
AA2200