220 WEATHERBY ROCK

[LABONTE79]

IAM LOOKING TO BUILB A NEW RIFLE FOR COYOTE HUNTING.
THINKING ABOUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT.THE 220 WEATHERBY ROCKET.HOW MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE THERE IS BETWEEN IT AND THE SWIFT WITH 60 GRAIN+ BULLETS?
HAS ANYONE ONE LOADED FOR IT.IS IT WORTH THE TROUBLE OR SHOULD I
GO WITH THE SWIFT.
THANKS FOR THE HELP.

 

[500YardHog]

From what i have read the W. rocket fell between the 22-250 and the swift .I wouldn't bother with it mainly because of the cost of weatherby brass .If you were lookin at something different with nice velocities how about a 22-250 Ackley improved.All the velocity of the 220 swift with less case stretch and good cheap brass.

 

[Cheechako]

The Weatherby Rocket is nothing more than an improved Swift. As 500yard said, a 22-250 Ackley will do just as well. Actually, with todays modern powders, a 22BR will probably suffice for 99% of what you are looking for. Even the 6PPC will push a 60 grain bullet to 3600 fps with extreme accuracy and much longer barrel life.

BTW, the Rocket is/was a wildcat using 220 Swift brass and there is no Weatherby brass for it.

Ray

 

[500YardHog]

I'm sorry, i was thinking about a .224 Weatherby Magnum. It was built on a belted case.

 

[AndyW]

Labonte,

If you are thinking something for coyotes and a little out of the ordinary build a 6mm AI. Way more "whack" power than any .224, and it will do a number on deer as well.

An 85 grain bullet @ 3600fps stops 'em in their tracks!

 

[swks]

Labonet, I have used the .220 Weatherby Rocket for yrs. It is a very good cartridge. Worst thing about it is getting a set of dies and a reamer that work together. Never really caught on. I have also had several 22/250 A.I.'s, to me they are the worthless one. From the chronographed loads with the 22/250 A.I. I could never get much over 50-100 fps improvement, so I have no further use for this wildcat. 6mm A.I. is OK, I am shooting one of those now, I have not chrono'd it, so can't tell if it is gonna be much of an improvement over standard 6mm Rem. The Rocket, as one shooter said is nothing more than the .220 Swift improved. It is a little more drastic in case capacity than a regular Swift Improved, that is why I stay with it. If the reamer is designed correctly, the case will have a 32 degree shoulder. Clymer was supposed to be the one that made the reamer for Weatherby. Redding dies are made from the Clymer print and so are PTG reamers. It took me yrs to get all this put together, but I finally got the custom S Full-Length die from Redding just this winter, and the new reamer from Dave Kiff. Before I was using a reamer from CH4D, it was a very old reamer, but still did a super job on the chambers. I had 1 barrel chamber'd by Hi-Tech Custom Rifles of Colorado Springs, he has his own reamer made up and it used the double radius neck on it. I sometimes think Rich R. might have the best reamer design. Bad part of it, no dies any where. Loading was not a problem, just no way to FL size. So I shot them 3-4 times, then they got too hard to chamber, so started out with new Swift cases again. I still have the barrel from this monster and 50-80 cases. I can send .jpg of one of them. However this is not the design I would suggest chambering to. I wrote this short message simply to answer Labonets question, I am not looking for flaming or arguments, it is just my ideas of what work for me. Like everyone I have my likes and dislikes. Private email me, I have quite a few loads for the Rocket, BUT, I never did chono it back then, as I did not have access to a chrono. So it might be slower than a standard Swift. I guess I just like the cartridge design.

 

[vmthtr]

I am shooting a 220 Swift AI with a 9 twist. With 75 Amax and H4381 I ma getting 3550 fps with a 28" Kreiger. It shoots very well in the wind. I am using Redding dies.

Mike

 

[Beto]

I don't know about the Rocket, but I had my Model 70 chambered to .220 Ackley Improved and was sort of dissapoined. It really didn't reflect much of an increase in velocity. Good thing is, case life is better.

 

[Cheechako]

I don't know about the Rocket, but I had my Model 70 chambered to .220 Ackley Improved and was sort of dissapoined. It really didn't reflect much of an increase in velocity. Good thing is, case life is better.

Anybody considering one of the Ackley Improved cartridges should get copies of his books. ,Actually, it's a good idea to have them even if you're not considering one of his cartridges.) Ackley hisself says exactly what you found - the Improved Swift will not result in any significant gains in velocity but may result in improved case life. He never claimed anything beyond that.

Ray

 

[CIA]

I agree with lynn. I have a 6-06 with a 12 twist and it shoots well and with a 70BT and H-4350 I can run them at about 4000 fps. Shoots real flat and yodel dogs do not run away. Also with a lot of AI cases feeding a 6-06 out of the magazine is flawless. Pound the pooches.

 

[AckleymanII]

swks, you must have been doing something very wrong with your 22/250 AI to only get 100+ fps more than the standard cartridge.

I have had several of them and the 50's using Win 760 will typically run 4150-4200 with a 26" barrel and the 55's would be running 4050 fps -4150 depending on the barrel at the accuracy node. I was in a coyote hunting club in S. Ca and there must have been a dozen of these rifles at least being used by the hunters. Of all the shooters, 1 would use H380, 2 or 3 would use H414, with all the rest universally using Win 760. All the guys at that time used Hart barrels. There was a gunsmith in the Coyote Club that did all the gunsmithing for all of us, so we all had the same chamber, same make of barrel, etc. All the guys were running .025 freebore with 1-12 to 1-14 twists, very tight throats .2245.

I shot the 60 and 65g Bergers with 37.0g of Win 760 shooting groups in the high 2's at 3700 fps which would shoot a bob cat in half and the coyotes never ran off with this load.

I also had very good luck with the 244 AI with zero freebore in a 1-14 twist. I fireformed the 70s at 4050 fps shooting groups in the .400 range,50.5g of Win 760), and the formed loads at 4150 fps shooting tiny clover leafs,51.5g of 760< Win case, with Fed 210 primer, 26" barrel). The 80g Sierra Blitz BT loaded with R#19 will turn out fantastic accuracy at a little over 3800 fps.

It is hard to believe just how flat shoot'en those 70's at 4150 fps are.

 

[Ackman]

I agree with Keith Candler.....either swks had a unusually slow barrel or he was doing something wrong. I've had a bunch of 22-250AI's and they've all been considerably faster than the standard 22-250. Also, Ackley Improved cartridges aren't wildcats.

One rechambered 24" Rem. sporter was right at 4110 with 50's. The 25" Walther was fireforming 50's at 4120 into ragged hole groups....haven't chrono'd it with formed brass. The 28" Hart is shooting 50's at 4243, also ragged hole groups. The Winchester barrel is a bit looser and accuracy with 50's is at only about 4120. There's a new barrel that hasn't been chrono'd yet. A couple other barrels got worn out before I ever had a chronograph. All these barrels are 14" twist and have chambers with NO freebore. The accuracy load in my fastest 22-250 shoots 50's at 3925, and that's faster than most for the std. cartridge. Powder of choice is Reloder 15 with Win. 760 a close second, brass is PMC.

Also swks, look at the amount of body taper on a 6mm case. Improving that cartridge makes a big difference in velocity and as Keith said, a 70 at over 4,000 hits hard. The load in my .240Gibbs is fairly conservative and pushes a 70 at 4100 with extreme - almost unbelievable - accuracy. At that speed the 70BT will flip a rockchuck at over 600yds, and it'll simply vaporize small stuff in closer. The 6mmAI duplicates that performance using less powder in a smaller case, and brass is much easier to make.

 

[Varminthunter]

I would have to say Richard Franklin's 300 Varminter would be the ultimate coyote and varmint rig for shots out to 600 yards. The 300 Varminter will push the 110grn V-Max at 4000+fps.

"IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, A FACTORY 300WSM WILL NOT GET THESE VELOCITIES, SO PLEASE DON'T TRY IT. EVEN IF YOU BUILD A CUSTOM RIFLE ON A REMINGTON ACTON, YOU WILL NOT GET THESE VELOCITIES!!!!!".

The accuracy is awesome and the destruction on large varmints with .30cal 110grn V-Max, like coyotes, is incredible. Even at 600 yards it flips varmints into the air. The 110grn V-Max performs well out to around 600 yards when it is pushed between 3800 to 4000fps. The 125grn BT will work well out to 800 yards and the 300 Varminter can push it to around 3850 to 3900fps.

In order to get this type of performance out of the 300 WSM Cartridge, the Rifle has to be built correctly. The 300 Varminter is designed around either a Nesika or BAT Action, Bartlein 30",1-15 twist barrel with zero free bore for the 110grn V-Max and 125grn BT bullets. The Chamber is a Match Chamber based off of Norma 300 WSM brass with .337 Tight neck.

I had Richard build one for me, and I will have it by next week. As soon as I get it out in the field I will report back on how it performed on the coyotes. If you would like to know more about the 300 Varminter, go to Richard's Custom Rifles web site.

VH

 

[TheReeper]

Wow, that sounds like an awesome set up. What kind of brass life can you expect with this set up. What type of action, barrel, stock, trigger, scope are you using?

 

[Varminthunter]

Reeper, regarding the brass life with the 300 Varminter. The 300 Varminter can push the 110grn V-Max at a velocity of 4100fps, however, you will only get about 3 firings per case. If you shoot the 110grn V-Max between 3900 to 4000fps, brass life improves a great deal.

"ONCE AGAIN, A FACTORY 300 WSM WILL NOT GET THE VELOCITIES MENTIONED ABOVE!!"

You can push the 125grn BT at a velocity of 3950 to 4000fps but you only get about 3 firings if you push it that fast. However, if you push the 125grn BT at around 3800 to 3850fps, brass life improves a great deal.

I plan to run the 110grn V-Max at around 3950fps and the 125grn BT at around 3850fps. This will allow me to get more life out of the cases.

Regarding action, barrel, scope, ect. I am using a Nesika Model K 1.470 diameter action, Bartlein 30" 1-15 twist 1.250 straight cylinder barrel, Jewel Trigger, Richard's #8 Long Range Varmint F-Class stock, Vias Muzzle brake, Nesika 20MOA Rail, Nightforce 30mm Rings, and I topped it off with a Nightforce 8x32x56mm Scope with MLR retical. The rifle will weigh around 25 pounds with scope.

I had it built for low volume varmint and coyote hunting out to 600 and 800 yards depending on what bullet I use. The other cartridges mentioned, such as the 22-250AI, 220Swift, 220 Rocket, and 6MM AI are also excellent coyote cartridges too. One of my varmint hunting buddies uses a 220 Swift with a 55grn V-Max for varminting and coyote hunting out to 500 yards. He has done very well with the 220 Swift. Anyhow, I hope I answered your questions.

If you have questions regarding the 300 Varminter, go to Richard's Custom Rifles web page. Also, if your wanting to build a varmint rifle, I would highly recommend Richard Franklin.

VH

 

[Varminthunter]

GUNAMONTH,

What I have posted is the information I am hearing from others who own the same build with same componets. They are all reporting excellent results.

Regarding the 25 pound rifle. I have hunted coyotes with 30 pound rigs before. When we hunt coyotes, we have a guy who is posted in a position for the long range shot and a guy posted for the short range shot. Obviously, my rifle was NOT built as a walking rig, it was built for use off a bi-pod and bench.

You stated the 110grn V-max has significantly less velocity and energy past 400 yards compared to the 75grn V-Max, NOT TRUE ATT ALL!!! I am sorry, but your quote is not entirely correct. First of all I will only be using the 110grn V-Max out to 600 yards, I am not going to shoot that bullet past that range. If I go past 600 yards, I will use the 125grn BT.

Regarding your STATEMENT, I ran the numbers and your wrong. The 110grn V-Max pushed out of a 1-15 twist 30" barrel at 4000fps has a velocity of 2000fps and 977 pounds of energy at 600 yards. The 75grn V-Max pushed out of a 1-12 twist 30" barrel at 3800fps has a velocity of 2066fps and 710 pounds of energy at 600 yards. Yes, the 75grn V-Max has a little more velocity,66fps)at 600 yards, however, it has 267 LESS pounds of energy at 600 yard than the 110grn V-Max.

I am not trying to get into a pissing match with you, but you are very wrong. I am not sure where you got your numbers. Even if you pushed the 75grn V-Max at 4000fps, it will still have 174 less pounds of energy at 600 yards than the 110grn V-Max.

So for shooting out to 600 yards, the 110grn V-Max will provide the shooter with 267 more pounds of energy which equals more killing power than the 75grn V-Max. If you built a walking 300 Varminter, it would be the ultimate coyote rig for shots out to 600 yards, with the 110grn V-Max. I am not saying the 110grn V-Max is the best bullet for bad conditions, however it's the best bullet for killing at ranges from 100 to 600 yards.

Regarding the URL, here it is;

www.richardscustomrifles.com


VH

 

[TheReeper]

gunamonth, I ran the numbers too, and VH is correct. The 110grn V-Max will provide more energy.

VH, thanks for the info on your rifle. I am thinking about building a custom 308 Win, and I would like to shoot the 110grn V-Max too. I know I wont get a ton of speed but it will provide some really good red mist out to 400 yards.

 

[Ackman]

GUNAMONTH,

What I have posted is the information I am hearing from others who own the same build with same componets. They are all reporting excellent results.

You stated the 110grn V-max has significantly less velocity and energy past 400 yards compared to the 75grn V-Max, NOT TRUE ATT ALL!!! I am sorry, but your quote is not entirely correct. First of all I will only be using the 110grn V-Max out to 600 yards, I am not going to shoot that bullet past that range. If I go past 600 yards, I will use the 125grn BT.

The 110grn V-Max pushed out of a 1-15 twist 30" barrel at 4000fps has a velocity of 2000fps and 977 pounds of energy at 600 yards. The 75grn V-Max pushed out of a 1-12 twist 30" barrel at 3800fps has a velocity of 2066fps and 710 pounds of energy at 600 yards.

I am not trying to get into a pissing match with you, but you are very wrong. I am not sure where you got your numbers. Even if you pushed the 75grn V-Max at 4000fps, it will still have 174 less pounds of energy at 600 yards than the 110grn V-Max.

These numbers games always make me wonder about stuff like this..... So, when out shooting and the gun has an "over-600yd" load chambered but a target appears at 500yds, do I unchamber and put in an "out to 600yd" load, or just shoot the damn thing? And if there's an "out to 600yd" load chambered but a target at 650, then what do I do? It's a difficult situation.

Also I wonder.....since 977ft/lbs energy is good at 600yds, does that mean 710ft/lbs isn't enough to kill a coyote? This is all so confusing.