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220 Redline

wboggs

Gold $$ Contributor
I put ou a post on a .22-6.5PRC not long ago. Research has turned up the 220 Redline which is essenially the same thing.
Has anyone built one? There was a lot of posts when fredo built his but he no longer seems to post on the thread. I have everything to make cases the same way he did. My question is whether anyone else has built one and the experience with it?
 
I put ou a post on a .22-6.5PRC not long ago. Research has turned up the 220 Redline which is essenially the same thing.
Has anyone built one? There was a lot of posts when fredo built his but he no longer seems to post on the thread. I have everything to make cases the same way he did. My question is whether anyone else has built one and the experience with it?
Wboggs -

Howdy !

Somewhere in the groundhoggin' posts " Snert " mentioned that " .220 Redline " posts were viewable over @ some coyote hunting website. I could not find the exact website reference Snert recently mentioned; but..... you might PM and ask him ?

Snert also mentioned that " Fredo " is working on a ." 240 Redline ", and that a report on the testing should be coming up this summer ( at Accurateshoooter ).

I think each " Redline " wildcat will prove to fill a niche on the wildcat application spectrum.


With regards,
357Mag
 
Well, finally someone has one. Could you share the best powders for 69, 77, 80 gr bullets, twist rates, accuracy, loading tips, case forming?
Thanks
Bill
 
Well, finally someone has one. Could you share the best powders for 69, 77, 80 gr bullets, twist rates, accuracy, loading tips, case forming?
Thanks
Bill
I’ve only tried that one bullet so far. I’m in CA and have to use copper monos. Luckily it was pretty accurate. The barrel is a 7 twist to handle that particular bullet but slower would be better if not using solids. I found a load pretty quickly with RL26 so I didn’t try any other powders but Superformance was going to be next. Case forming is pretty straightforward, I did it the same as Fredo. Hope that helps.
 
Thanks for the info Elnicko. I hope your share some pictures of the rifle, cases fired and unfired, data, groups etc. I know Fredo shared more than most and he did good job with it but it would be nice to hear your experiences too. Me and my brother are talking about building something extreme, maybe not Saum extreme but something like 22-6.5PRC. I just read the Fredos thread over the weekend and watched his videos. Lots of fun and then he was developing the 240 redline too….. fun stuff.
 
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There would be essentially no difference in performance using the 6.5 prc case. It will be interesting to see if some members like the idea and start discussions on it. Please share all your data and experience.
 
Wboggs -

Howdy !

Please excuse any transmission errors.....

Expansion Ratio:

Ballistician Homer Powley has told us that rifle "expansion ratio " can be calculated, and then used to compare the relative efficiency of different wildcats configurations.

" The expansion ratio determines how much of the chemical energy is converted into kinetic energy "

The comparative closeness in the achievable expansion ratio ( ER ) between the 2 wildcats you mention could be revealed by running ER calculations for both wildcat chamberings / rifle configurations.

In the circumstance where your postulated rifle and new wildcat would have the same barrel length as Fredo's .220 Redline rifle.....both rifle's expansion ratios might be notably close.

* Were you to make ER comparisons using longer barrel lengths on your rifle than what Fredo's rifle has; then your gun's expansion ratio could be / would be boosted.
If memory serves Fredo's .220 Redline rifle wi/ his chosen barrel length, has an ER of 4.5.

Homer Powley provided a copy of his expansion ratio chart ( Guns & Ammo 1974 Annual ). Powley didn't even bother providing space on his expansion ratio graph for any ER's lower than 4 (probably because rifle's w/ such low expansion ratios might appear unattractive to mainstream shooters / reloaders. ). This would be a rifle spec'd to operate out in a certain corner of the ballistic performance envelope; like Fredo's ).


With regards,
357Mag
 
I would prefer a 28-30" barrel which is fairly long and heavy since it would be only shot from a bench or bipod and not carried in the field. My purpose would be to experiment in a narrow corner of ballistic performance for .224 cals.
I am interested in 69-80 bullets in a 1-8 twist since the fast twist and velocity would probably destroy the heavy 90+ ones. A conventional fast .224 might include those up to a 22xc, 22 creed. A step up would include the .22-243, 22-6mm, and their improved versions. The nich I would be in is the .22-284 and the saum/prc versions.
My concern is acquiring the powders. Everything else is available. It would be an interesting project and I'm happy to hear nakneker is also thinking about it. It would't be that much different than the .22-284 experiments years ago but powders have changed. The conclusion that it is badly overbore and a nich cartridge will remain unchanged.
 
I would prefer a 28-30" barrel which is fairly long and heavy since it would be only shot from a bench or bipod and not carried in the field. My purpose would be to experiment in a narrow corner of ballistic performance for .224 cals.
I am interested in 69-80 bullets in a 1-8 twist since the fast twist and velocity would probably destroy the heavy 90+ ones. A conventional fast .224 might include those up to a 22xc, 22 creed. A step up would include the .22-243, 22-6mm, and their improved versions. The nich I would be in is the .22-284 and the saum/prc versions.
My concern is acquiring the powders. Everything else is available. It would be an interesting project and I'm happy to hear nakneker is also thinking about it. It would't be that much different than the .22-284 experiments years ago but powders have changed. The conclusion that it is badly overbore and a nich cartridge will remain unchanged.
Wboggs -

Howdy, again !

There is a chart still " out there ", that listed a variety of cartridges; and showed a shaded area where .224" calibre case capacity started to go " over-bore ". I DK who put the chart out ? At the time I first saw it 4+ decades ago, the .220Swift was right @ the edge of going into over-bore territory. This would not be any great concern to a lot of shooters, when the ( example ) .220 Swift gives them the desired level of performance.... just as you eluded to for your proposed wildcat.

* Since expansion ratio is a ratio of powder charge to total " capacity " of the rifle ( chamber + bore ), it might prove useful to run some ER calculations.... for purposes of wildcat design study / performance trade-offs ? This would show at what point a postulated power charge would result in an undesirable expansion ratio for the rifle.... given a chosen barrel length. *

I have already had 2 chambers cut, for my ".22-35 Remington " wildcat.
The first.... a 24" SS 1-14 Hart. The second.... a 28" SS 1-8 K & P . For the latter,
I shot Hornady 75 "A"-Max, exclusively. I wanted a dual-role' capable rifle, and needed the rifle / chambering to give me reliable one-shot kills on groundhog... which it did at all distances I got to try. I myself was leery ( and still am ) about using longer / heavier .224" cal bullets on groundhogs @ any distance. But hey... that's just me.

The idea of using longer barrel lengths to " boost " rifle' expansion ratio holds a lot of appeal ( IMHO ). It can provide a means for obtaining higher velocities without complete dependence on an overly huge chamber capacity. The chamber size can be moderated then, to at least some degree ( again.... IMHO ).

I have looked on-line for a copy of Homer Powley's " expansion ratio " chart, to no avail.
Right now, all of my re-loading / wildcatting paperwork is packed for a move across 3 states. If and when I can find the chart, I'd be happy to send it along.

If memory serves...... I made a response to Fredo's .220 Redline post series, wherein I quoted the Max powder charge for .224" cal wildcat ( and 28" barrel ) at which point an expansion ratio of 4 would be reached. That drill showed that Fredo's .220 Redline rifle had a total volumne that gave an expansion ratio slightly better than 4 ( 4.5 ).
IF in can find that powder charge number taken from Powley's expansion ratio chart, I'd be happy to pass it along. It would perhaps give one and idea @ what point wildcat' internal ballistics would become grossly impractical ?


With regards,
357Mag
 
Let me know if you find it. Longer barrels don't cost that much more.
Wboggs -

Howdy!

I did look back @ the post responses I made to Fredo, in his " Gentlemen,....I present the
.220 Redline ".

In my 17 Jan 2018 response to Fredo, I quoted an " expansion ratio " of 4.5 for a
notional .224" cal wildcat, holding a 70gr charge; and shot from a 28" barrel.
* These numbers were relayed to Fredo, after I plotted that charge wt in that calibre; on Powley's expansion ratio chart. *

I'm still looking to locate a copy of the ER chart....


With regards,
357Mag
 

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