22 LR reamer

[tac284]

Ive had zero feeding issues with my 22LR custom reamer which uses a 0.2253" straight body diameter with a highly polished chamber and mouth chamfer. I know of 3 smiths that have cut 100s of RimX barrels to date with this reamer and it feeds great with quality match ammo and is stupid accurate.

Biggest issue Ive seen with people having feeding issues out of the gate with the RimX is not properly adjusting mag height with the built in RimX mag adjustment per Zermatt. Most people get their new gun or barreled action and run to the range, glossing over this part...

Is there a particular reamer company making your reamer, do they stock it or are you even releasing that info?

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee,

Your experience is the same as mine. The overall length difference is why I now cut the depth of my chambers for the lot number of ammo I plan to shoot. To do that I take an average of the lengths of the lot. Of course, the problem is when I run out of that lot number, I've got to hope to find another lot that is consistent and averages the same. I too am seeing either larger diameter bullets or the lube isn't as good on some rounds. Gone are the days when Eley bullets had so much lube you had to wipe it out of your port.

I'm not suggesting one has to go to this trouble. You can always just shoot it a see if it works. If it does you are home free. Probably more than 90 percent of the time you will be just fine. It's that last 10 percent that can drive you crazy.

TKH

Hi Tony,

Thank you for sharing what you have seen as well. I do remember you mentioning chambering for specific lot of ammo. and possibly rechambering for a different one after the first lot is gone.
unfortunately, I don't have that luxury of chambering my own barrels. so, as a work around and what has been working for me is having my barrels chambered specifically for a set amount of engraving. I think what really helped is Lapua's quality in how consistent AOL are. with no ability to lot test on my own, it has helped me stay competitive.

Thanks again for sharing,
Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee, can you please show your ogive gauge …thanks!

Maybe the tight chambering is the bullet hardness?

Lubrication has been a problem for a long time . Frank Tirrell and I figured that out many…. many moons ago!

High Noon

Highnoon,

Here is the gauge I use. it was made by Gerry Gereg there was a write up here on AS. Hawkeye Wizard (Ron Elbe) wrote about his experiences using one on RFC.
Unfortunately, it seems that Gerry is either not making them anymore or sadly he may have passed away. his email is still valid, but he has not replied for nearly two years now.

Lee

 

[MUP]

because I sort by AOL as measured

Because I measure AOL from the rim face to the Ogive I noticed a common occurrence. overly long or short AOL is where I see shots go high or low outside a group. these are the fliers I am speaking of in my case.
of about 20-25,000 rounds I have sorted I noticed the best shooting lots have very few if any of these way off AOL. and will sort in groups of AOL within 0.010 or less. and will have a majority group length with 75-85% out of 500 rounds. which means 425 rounds will be under 0.010 spread I consider 0.005 to be a non-factor when sorting. so, I may have sorted groups of 0.0700-0.705 as an example.
In perspective my rifles like AOL from 0.705-0.725 any round measured that is more than plus or minus 0.015 will be these rounds that shoot high or low. I have found some lots with as much as 0.045+ or 0.045- but even when they are sorted and grouped together, they are predictable on how they shoot.

I been seeing something interesting lately on new lots I have gotten. they seem to be larger in diameter. I say this because some short AOL of 0.660 are a little bit harder to close the bolt on them. in the past these were very easy to close the bolt on. so, I have to think the diameter is larger.
remember keep in mind I am speaking about my rifles and what I see as fliers and why they occur. someone else's may be something different that is the cause.

Lee

I was just about to ask if you had shot the outliers , sorted that is, to see if they grouped together. Good info and much appreciated.

 

[CNC-Dude]

JGS
Plus a great company that actually follows through with what they tell you.
JMHO

I'm expecting shipping of mine from JGS in mid-June, I'm anxious to try it out....

 

[High Noon]

Thanks Lee…

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Thanks Lee…

You're welcome

 

[dgeesaman]

Highnoon,

Here is the gauge I use. it was made by Gerry Gereg there was a write up here on AS. Hawkeye Wizard (Ron Elbe) wrote about his experiences using one on RFC.
Unfortunately, it seems that Gerry is either not making them anymore or sadly he may have passed away. his email is still valid, but he has not replied for nearly two years now.

Lee

I tried to buy one this winter. He replied with info in the late fall and i mailed him a check to purchase the gauge. I haven’t heard from him since.

David

 

[High Noon]

Thanks for the heads up David…hopefully someone else might consider making them.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I tried to buy one this winter. He replied with info in the late fall and i mailed him a check to purchase the gauge. I haven’t heard from him since.

David

That is the same thing that happened to a friend and fellow shooter. his check was never cashed.

Lee

 

[mblocal6]

High Noon,

I don't use an ogive gauge although I have a number of chambered barrels stubs I could use as such. I use the bullet stick out of the chamber itself. I have a tool set up with a dial indicator to measure the stick out.

You are quite right bullet hardness could very well cause hard chambering. Bullets should all feel the same when you push them in using the back of the bolt. If they don't, I normally get inconsistent shooting results.

TKH

Tony thanks for sharing that info

 

[mblocal6]

High Noon,

I don't use an ogive gauge although I have a number of chambered barrels stubs I could use as such. I use the bullet stick out of the chamber itself. I have a tool set up with a dial indicator to measure the stick out.

You are quite right bullet hardness could very well cause hard chambering. Bullets should all feel the same when you push them in using the back of the bolt. If they don't, I normally get inconsistent shooting results.

TKH

Tony hanks for sharing that info

High Noon,

I don't use an ogive gauge although I have a number of chambered barrels stubs I could use as such. I use the bullet stick out of the chamber itself. I have a tool set up with a dial indicator to measure the stick out.

You are quite right bullet hardness could very well cause hard chambering. Bullets should all feel the same when you push them in using the back of the bolt. If they don't, I normally get inconsistent shooting results.

TKH

Tony I'm getting a Cz457 action threaded to fit a shilen barrel, my friend has a JGS match reamer, or would I be better off if purchased the JGS nevius reamer. What's your thoughts about either reamer.

 

[Tony K Harper]

Really depends on how you are going to operate the rifle. If you are loading by hand directly into the chamber and chambering the rounds by pushing the back of the bolt, I would use a Calfee .225 straight, 2 degree leade reamer. If you are feeding from the clip, I would use a larger reamer and less engraving, more like the Bill Myers reamers.

I have restricted all my efforts to RFBR accuracy standards and don't use clip fed techniques so there may be better reamers out there for that purpose.

TKH

 

[mblocal6]

Really depends on how you are going to operate the rifle. If you are loading by hand directly into the chamber and chambering the rounds by pushing the back of the bolt, I would use a Calfee .225 straight, 2 degree leade reamer. If you are feeding from the clip, I would use a larger reamer and less engraving, more like the Bill Myers reamers.

I have restricted all my efforts to RFBR accuracy standards and don't use clip fed techniques so there may be better reamers out there for that purpose.

TKH

Thanks for all that info Tony but know you have me wondering if the Kevin nevius reamer will work with a clip fed action? The reason I want to go with this reamer is because we mostly shoot BR and from what I've read this is a great reamer and I've had the most luck with lapua.

 

[Tony K Harper]

Thanks for all that info Tony but know you have me wondering if the Kevin nevius reamer will work with a clip fed action? The reason I want to go with this reamer is because we mostly shoot BR and from what I've read this is a great reamer and I've had the most luck with lapua.

I can't answer that. Perhaps someone that has actually tried it will share their experience.

Although I shoot IR 50/50 sporter and they are required to have a clip, I would never feed it through the clip shooting RFBR competition.

On a separate note, Di Orio Eng. has just released a new repeater rimfire action that can feed really well from a clip, and it has all the features that has made the Turbo such a successful RFBR action.

TKH

 

[kevin nevius]

Thanks for all that info Tony but know you have me wondering if the Kevin nevius reamer will work with a clip fed action? The reason I want to go with this reamer is because we mostly shoot BR and from what I've read this is a great reamer and I've had the most luck with lapua.

Good afternoon, my apologies for the delayed response.

And yes, the Meyers reamer (which was the basis of my testing) works well with clip fed actions. There is no benefit IMHO to a straight sided chamber in any application (even the most serious RFBR application), and I have never seen any evidence or testing to prove as much. A slight taper is beneficial for extraction, and doesn't peel lubrication and leave it on the bolt / tennon face as a straight sided chamber does.

As far as "tightness", my reamer is .2250" / .2248" (by my math, two tenths tighter at the throat, where alignment is the most critical).

The late Mr. Meyers was as serious about RFBR as anyone. And the late Karl Kenyon (the greatest smallbore gunsmith of all time, regardless of discipline) used the same chamber profile. That's why I used it as the basis of my testing.

I wish you all the very best, and am at your service should you need anything. Please send me a PM.

kev (OU812)

 

[Tony K Harper]

Good afternoon, my apologies for the delayed response.

And yes, the Meyers reamer (which was the basis of my testing) works well with clip fed actions. There is no benefit IMHO to a straight sided chamber in any application (even the most serious RFBR application), and I have never seen any evidence or testing to prove as much. A slight taper is beneficial for extraction, and doesn't peel lubrication and leave it on the bolt / tennon face as a straight sided chamber does.

As far as "tightness", my reamer is .2250" / .2248" (by my math, two tenths tighter at the throat, where alignment is the most critical).

The late Mr. Meyers was as serious about RFBR as anyone. And the late Karl Kenyon (the greatest smallbore gunsmith of all time, regardless of discipline) used the same chamber profile. That's why I used it as the basis of my testing.

I wish you all the very best, and am at your service should you need anything. Please send me a PM.

kev (OU812)

Kev,
Thanks for sharing your experience with clip fed bolt rifles.

I was lucky enough to have had a couple of rifles built by the late Bill Meyers and had the opportunity to compete against him on many occasions.

That was awhile ago. Much has changed in RFBR since those days. Accuracy standards required to win big RFBR matches has increased significantly. The records today in all forms of RFBR are far higher than the past.

Although I have read quite a bit about Karl Kenyon I don’t believe he ever participated in RFBR nor do I know of any of his rifles that have been successful doing so.

The most successful RFBR gunsmith has been Bill Calfee for at least the last 25 years. His “Spec” series of rifles have set more RFBR records and won more RFBR tournaments and matches than any other smith. I can assure you all of these rifles were chambered with a straight side reamer with a 2 degree leade.

We all know there are many ways to skin a cat but some ways provide better outcomes than others.

With all of this said, changes continue to be made. We still haven’t got that last crumb of accuracy out of this very old and poorly designed cartridge.

TKH

 

[Jefferson]

thanks to Tony for answering the clip fed reamer suggestion

since Mr Harper has more experience in real matches than poor old me I not only defer to him but also acknowledge his statements as being factul

although I dislike calfee for his attempted extortion of the swindlehurst makers he has built some rifles that R IN THE HANDS OF REAL GOOD SHOOTERS as well as yourself who assist in coming to better factual conclusions as to,what works or can work in this small and mostly problematic cartridge

 

[kevin nevius]

Kev,
Thanks for sharing your experience with clip fed bolt rifles.

I was lucky enough to have had a couple of rifles built by the late Bill Meyers and had the opportunity to compete against him on many occasions.

That was awhile ago. Much has changed in RFBR since those days. Accuracy standards required to win big RFBR matches has increased significantly. The records today in all forms of RFBR are far higher than the past.

Although I have read quite a bit about Karl Kenyon I don’t believe he ever participated in RFBR nor do I know of any of his rifles that have been successful doing so.

The most successful RFBR gunsmith has been Bill Calfee for at least the last 25 years. His “Spec” series of rifles have set more RFBR records and won more RFBR tournaments and matches than any other smith. I can assure you all of these rifles were chambered with a straight side reamer with a 2 degree leade.

We all know there are many ways to skin a cat but some ways provide better outcomes than others.

With all of this said, changes continue to be made. We still haven’t got that last crumb of accuracy out of this very old and poorly designed cartridge.

TKH

Tony:

My tenure and experience in the RF shooting sports is a little broader than clip fed rifles. The pure pursuit of accuracy is not proprietary to RFBR FYI, and success on the Olympic stage requires nothing less than what you would expect from the best of your equipment I assure you. I was fortunate to know and learn from Karl - his skill and accomplishments are surpassed by no one. If you ever own one of his triggers, you will see just how amazing he was. And he did it all without a podium, never harming anyone or any product associated with the sport he loved.

This is just a hunch, but any "spec" rifles remaining from back in the day have long since been re-barreled (many have been documented as such). Wouldn't stop them from winning - although you have to look really hard to find one at the upper end of RFBR results these days. But knowing for certain what chamber is in them is speculation IMHO.

And just because a certain smith uses a certain chamber (mine included), doesn't mean there aren't better ways to do things. If we listened to all the hard line thinking of 25 years ago, we would never have:

- The amazing Stiller 2500X action
- SAP ignitions that currently dominate RFBR
- Lapua ammunition dominance (and the healthy competition that comes from it that makes all products better)

Additionally, many (including Jerry) are boring their chambers - which is pretty exciting from a machinists perspective. A CNC can operate at speeds we cannot achieve with a common lathe (improving finish), and the programming allows any conceivable profile - no dedicated tooling. Jerry's chambers are not the 2 degree straight sided chambers of old (and his guns heavily populate the top 20 of any RFBR competition these days).

At the end of the day, there is only so much we can do with this antiquated cartridge (and the chambers we use for it). I don't know where the next innovation will come from, but I'm excited to see where things go / are going.

kev (OU812)

 

[Jefferson]

Kevin,
you are correct but I for one don’t believe the calfee sap/pas conclusion

and I was kidding about the clip fed guys

progress is not a straight road, and the journey is muddied and rain filled a lot

however the rimfire benchrest guys ring out accuracy maybe the best, although my buddy who has shot a few times on,the World Cup shoots awesome in a sling with iron sights

I feel it is easier to QUANTIFY results on a bench with rests than with a sling, irons even with interchangeable sights, and a wind flag that is really poor for World Cup events

progress os a combination of folks attempting to test theories and have the theories become factual

as true immutable facts are for the most part hard to come by in the rimfire world