22 LR Long Range Dispersion, What is the Culprit

[vaguru]

A 22 LR rifle repeatedly groups half minute or better at 50 yds and 100 yds. Groups at 200 yds still acceptable MOA +/-, but past that patterns not groups, especially 300 yds and out.

What do you attribute to lack of performance at longer range?

Ammo, barrel, conditions, shooter?

I have my opinion, but have heard others that make no sense.

 

[Mike_McAllister]

Is there any wind *at all* when you are testing at 300 yards and farther? A 1 mph wind blows a match round .1" in 50 yards.

Also, I have never thought .22 rimfire bullets were balanced very well when you consider how the rebated base of the bullet and the crimp actually work during the act of firing. Meaning when the bullet is ripped out of the crimp, does it rip out evenly? Personally, I believe this is why we end up with flyers occasionally. Just my opinion(s).

 

[davidjoe]

I believe that cone-like dispersion starting after the muzzle is a characteristic of the path of all projectiles. A .22 being at the slow and less precise end of the spectrum of ammunition, simply demonstrates this closest to the rifle.

Ultimately, assuming the rifle was fired from a machine rest in the calm, the inevitable dispersion is the compounding effect over distance of imperfections that cause bullet differences as well as initial velocity variances.

 

[Krogen]

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Only a slight variation in muzzle velocity translates to large vertical stringing at longer distances. I've seen this repeatedly in a dead calm. Consider the trajectory and how the bullet is lobbed out there and it makes some sense. Add small puffs of wind and that vertical string translates to patterns.

I often see the bullet itself in my scope as it travels to the target. Inexplicably, I'll see my reticle stay right on target without disruption and see the bullet fly somewhere else. I exclude the shooter when I can verify a good release. And this is with Eley Match ammo. There can be gremlins at the range. Tossing a 22 a long ways is a lot to ask of the lowly 22LR.

 

[Albany Mountain]

Where can one find ballistic data on 22 lr? Is this caliber present in many calculators already??

 

[SteveUrban]

IMHO, most 22 ammo is made to preform at 50 & 100 yards. I have found that for a 22 round to perform past that range the mv needs to be in the 1160 range to be accurate at 200 meters. I have some Federal 900 (the one with the dimple on the case head) that I have chronographed and the es for 15 shots was 33 fps. I figured out that the bc is .149 after shooting it across 2 chronographs. It shoots well out of my bpcr rifle. I have not shot at 300 in a long time, but as I recall, it was not that accurate.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[grauhanen]

There is a non-linear increase in dispersion as distance increases, and this is very obvious in .22LR performance. In other words, rather than a linear increase in group size where group size doubles with distance, especially with .22 rimfire group sizes grow more and more as distance increases.

There are several causes. One is obvious and that is that as .22LR bullets slow down with distance, vertical dispersion increases more and more. To put it another way, it takes the .22LR bullet more than twice as long to get from 100 to 200 than it takes to go from 0 to 100. There's simply more time for bullets to be affected by the inexorable forces of gravity. MV variation serves to make group sizes worse than if rounds had very similar MVs.

The other primary cause is less obvious but no less important. Soft lead projectiles such as .22LR bullets (and airgun pellets) are very difficult to produce with a near perfect center of gravity. Cg imperfection contributes to group dispersion. Some lots -- indeed some rounds within lots -- have more or less perfect centers of gravity than others. The result is that some lots will have greater rates of dispersion due to Cg imperfection than others.

(Individual bores/chambers contribute to the Cg of the bullets that become obturated as they pass through them. This is one reason why some rifles/barrels shoot better at longer distance than others.)

Landy (HuskerP7M8) did a comparison of Lapua testing facility ten shot group results at both 50 and 100 meters and found that on average the dispersion rate between 50 and 100 meters was a factor of about 2.8 times. Some lots are better or worse than others. Same for some rifles/barrels.

 

[xswanted]

A 22 LR rifle repeatedly groups half minute or better at 50 yds and 100 yds. Groups at 200 yds still acceptable MOA +/-, but past that patterns not groups, especially 300 yds and out.

What do you attribute to lack of performance at longer range?

Ammo, barrel, conditions, shooter?

I have my opinion, but have heard others that make no sense.

Shooter input, conditions and ammo performance (SD) is what I’ve found to make ammo perform or not perform at long range.


Past 250 yards if the three aforementioned parameters are not in harmony you’re going to struggle.

 

[CharlieNC]

As the distance increases the dispersion deviates from a cone and becomes a vortex as the velocity falls off rapidly, it's no longer linear.

 

[MarkS]

A 22 LR rifle repeatedly groups half minute or better at 50 yds and 100 yds. Groups at 200 yds still acceptable MOA +/-, but past that patterns not groups, especially 300 yds and out.

What do you attribute to lack of performance at longer range?

Ammo, barrel, conditions, shooter?

I have my opinion, but have heard others that make no sense.

conditions first ammo next

 

[Williwaw]

@CharlieNC

I learned what a vortex is today.

 

[Jpete]

Shooter input, conditions and ammo performance (SD) is what I’ve found to make ammo perform or not perform at long range.


Past 250 yards if the three aforementioned parameters are not in harmony you’re going to struggle.

This has been my experience as well. I have had the most success with shooting groups early in the morning before the conditions arrive.

400 yards has been the toughest for me, I have yet to achieve any 5 shot groups less than 6 inches.

 

[cwebster]

Trying to make a Volkswagon beetle to perform like a Top Fuel dragster.

 

[shoot4fun]

After reading through all the comments I cannot believe no one has paid any attention to a fact I read early on in my shooting life.
22LR ammunition can put your eye out a a distance of 1 mile.
Just how much farther does it need to be dubbed "LONG RANGE"?

 

[xswanted]

This has been my experience as well. I have had the most success with shooting groups early in the morning before the conditions arrive.

400 yards has been the toughest for me, I have yet to achieve any 5 shot groups less than 6 inches.
View attachment 1575048

That’s good shooting. A 6” group at 400 yards, consistently performed, is tough.

 

[dstoenner]

Landy (HuskerP7M8) did a comparison of Lapua testing facility ten shot group results at both 50 and 100 meters and found that on average the dispersion rate between 50 and 100 meters was a factor of about 2.8 times. Some lots are better or worse than others. Same for some rifles/barrels.

I had heard a long time ago that the rule of thumb on 22’s was if you double the distance you get an increase of 3x what it was.

Your friend has great data to back that rule of thumb. I did an experiment on going from 50 to 100 with 2 ammos and 3 5 round groups. Mine came to 3.2.

Thanks

David

 

[MrG52D]

I had heard a long time ago that the rule of thumb on 22’s was if you double the distance you get an increase of 3x what it was.

Your friend has great data to back that rule of thumb. I did an experiment on going from 50 to 100 with 2 ammos and 3 5 round groups. Mine came to 3.2.

Thanks

David

I agree, what shoots at 3/8 at 50 is approx 1in at 100.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

A 22 LR rifle repeatedly groups half minute or better at 50 yds and 100 yds. Groups at 200 yds still acceptable MOA +/-, but past that patterns not groups, especially 300 yds and out.

What do you attribute to lack of performance at longer range?

Ammo, barrel, conditions, shooter?

I have my opinion, but have heard others that make no sense.

A 22 rifle? This sounds like a general question and not per a particular rifle.
curious what would you call a good group at 300yds.?

Lee

 

[vaguru]

A 22 rifle? This sounds like a general question and not per a particular rifle.
curious what would you call a good group at 300yds.?

Lee

Correct, general question. 300 yd group, I have no idea since I haven't shot 22 LR that far. I was able to shoot out 200 yds just recently and groups averaged 1" with mild conditions. Hopefully when I am able to try 300 yds a good group would be somewhere around 4-5", maybe 6-8", conditions permitting.

Asking too much?

 

[xswanted]

Correct, general question. 300 yd group, I have no idea since I haven't shot 22 LR that far. I was able to shoot out 200 yds just recently and groups averaged 1" with mild conditions. Hopefully when I am able to try 300 yds a good group would be somewhere around 4-5", maybe 6-8", conditions permitting.

Asking too much?

What kind of setup are you shooting?

1” average 200 yard groups are quite impressive.