22 BR vs 22 Grendel

[moorepower]

Is there a node somewhere in there for the 80s that shoot best? Kind of like most of the ~105gn 6mm bullets have nodes at 2920, 3050, etc? Or has it not been explored enough to have some common wisdom arise about what speeds to run?



What does the 22 PPC AI look like performance wise? I'm assuming it looks like 25gns or so of powder behind an 80gn bullet running 2900-3000 tops?

I really want to run something with minimal powder and heat. The 20 Vartarg has taught me the virtues of minimalism in shooting. I can shoot 50 rnds in a row at a steady, moderate pace and not heat the barrel any more than a 5 round group at the same pace with the 22-250 or 6.5 Creedmoor. I now want to build a 22 that gets the 80s up to a speed where they are happy and perform well but doesn't burn up the barrel but I'd like to have more performance than a 223 can muster.

22pcp holds 29.5g Varget.

 

[Evan]

Just for fun, I drew up a "vartarg'ed" Grendel, where I pushed the shoulder down 0.030" and increased the shoulder to 40degrees. Also widened it at the shoulder a couple thousandths. Mostly just a game as volume came out very very close to the grendel.

And compared to others:

22 vartarg grendel, 22 grendel, 22 dasher grendel, 22 bra

 

[flatlander]

I've been shooting 6 Dashers since 2004, and have always liked the case proportions & performance of that round. Started shooting a 28" bbl'd spacegun in 6RAT in 2007, and have since built a couple of bolt rifles chambered for the RAT on CZ 527 & Howa Mini actions. Just recently finished a Mini in 22 Grendel; had considered doing it in a "Dasherized" or RAT version, but for simplicity, stayed with an un-modified Grendel case. Haven't started doing any load development with this round yet, but will get started as soon as work allows time to get it going. Would like to at least get a good baseline on the 22 Grendel's performance before considering doing an improved or "Dasherized" or 22RAT version. This one's got a 24" Bartlein 5R bbl with 1-6.8tw, which should give me an idea whether I need to stick with that fast a twist, or back off to the more common 1-7tw.

I built myself a 20 VarTarg a few years ago, using a Rem M700 CDL SSF in 17 FB as the foundation to build on. Pulled the fluted SS 17 FB bbl & sent it to Bartlein to copy the contour for a 26" 20 cal bbl, and was very pleased with how that little rifle turned out - very accurate, very attractive in the CDL stock, fairly quiet to shoot, and didn't heat up the bbl too fast. So I'm with you on the 'less is more' side of things.

The attached photo shows the three Howa Mini rifles I've completed so far - top to bottom: 6RAT, 24"Bartlein light Palma in McM Game Scout stock; 22 Grendel, 24" Bartlein 1-6.8tw #3 sporter in Boyds Prairie Hunter; 20 Tactical, 24" Bartlein #2 sporter in Boyds ProVarmint. All three have DIP aluminum DBM, and modified HACT triggers that break at 1.1-1.5lbs.

 

[Evan]

Just recently finished a Mini in 22 Grendel; had considered doing it in a "Dasherized" or RAT version, but for simplicity, stayed with an un-modified Grendel case. Haven't started doing any load development with this round yet, but will get started as soon as work allows time to get it going. Would like to at least get a good baseline on the 22 Grendel's performance before considering doing an improved or "Dasherized" or 22RAT version. This one's got a 24" Bartlein 5R bbl with 1-6.8tw, which should give me an idea whether I need to stick with that fast a twist, or back off to the more common 1-7tw.

I'm really interested in hearing about that. I keep flip flopping between a 7 and 8 twist. I don't know if the 90s are worth it compared to a slower twist and much faster 75gn bullets in this size case.

I'm also very interested in how quickly it heats up, and if it feels like it offers something over a 223AI or 22BR which are my nearest "normal" competitors right now for the next gun. I really like the support the Grendel is getting; brass shortage shouldn't be an issue ever.

 

[Evan]

Just for fun:

223AI, 22 PPC AI, 22 Grendel, 22 Grendel "Dasher", 22BR, and 22 BRA.

I'm probably going to rebarrel my burned out 22-250 in 22BR to see how I like this range of cartridges and then build a custom 22 PPC Ackley.

 

[bart brennan]

Probably right in that area with a longer barrel.

Same here for me as well, less is more kind of guy, and I welcome extra barrel life, etc. Had the 20x47, 220 Swifts, 6-284's, etc, just not my thing anymore. Have a 20-221AI now which is my go-to. It's a relief knowing that I will be replacing this barrel 5-10 years from now, instead of the next year or two.

Already had a 223 bolt face on another rifle that got turned into 223AI which is also a less is more cartridge, roughly equivalent to 22PPC. Getting 2813 fps with 88's with it. This is in a single shot rifle with longer freebore.

Might at some point try 22 PPC or the AI version in my Mausingfield with PR mag kits but for now I'm happy with 6mmBR. 6mmBR's are so easy to tune it's silly! Bad groups are .4"! More groups touching inside of .3" than not.

It's shocking to me that Lapua, alpha or adg has not made 22 grendal or 300wsm brass.

 

[Evan]

It's shocking to me that Lapua, alpha or adg has not made 22 grendal or 300wsm brass.

I can understand the 22 Grendel, cause they make the 6.5 Grendel parent already. 300WSM has a huge potential market though and no parent case available yet in their lineup. Really weird!

 

[LCazador]

I could be mistaken, but I think that my Rimrock will work with the BR cartridge and the Grendel or ppc case. Been wanting to get into group shooting and was told I could just put a ppc barrel on my action and shoot. Currently I shoot short range BR with a 30 BR. Don’t think you’ll be disappointed with whatever you build with a Borden action. Have fun.

If you think you're going to get the same accuracy with a BR bolt face pulling a 6PPC, you're not. I tried that and the slop in the bolt face is not good.