22 BR vs 22 Grendel

[Evan]

So, upon shooting several hundred rounds from my lovely 20VT built on a Borden Rimrock, my poor 22-250 on a Rem 700 just doesn't excite me much anymore. I'm wanting to build another Rimrock, and I'm swinging between a fast twist 22 BR or a 22 Grendel to shoot 80s (maybe 90s, but seems iffy for bullets blowing up).

What do you guys think? I'm curious if you have some pro or cons in mind that I've not considered with one or the other. I think performance and availability of quality components are about neck and neck for the two. Thanks for any advice!

 

[MrMajestic]

the boltface on the BR option might leave you more possibilities in future chamberings, JMHO

 

[Evan]

the boltface on th BR option might leave you more possibilities in future chamberings, JMHO

If I'm honest, I've got 3 more customs I want to build in the future: a PPC bolt face, a standard, and a mag bolt. Provided my wife continues to consent... That way I have one of each common bolt type.

I'm drawn to the 22 Grendel for reasons not entirely based in logic. I find the case shape and design aesthetically more pleasing than the 22 BR which always looks like the case is a bit too big for the bullet.

Maybe I do a 22 Grendel and the next custom is a 6 BRA, then the "last" custom on a mag bolt will be a 300wsm .

Has anyone here built a 22 Grendel bolt gun with a longer barrel? I'm hoping a 30" barrel would allow me to go 3200 with 80s. Most of the Internet talk is with ARs that run short barrels so extrapolating what can be done with a benchrest action and heavy, long barrel is a bit of a guess.

 

[MrMajestic]

https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/tennessee-tack-driver/

 

[Evan]

https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/tennessee-tack-driver/

The 22 Dasher is certainly tempting. I feel like it's a bit too much powder. Don't ask me why, but I feel like 30gns or so is the right amount for a 22. My 22-250 feels like too much powder, aggressively heating things up and wearing the throat. I did consider re barreling in a fast twist 22-250, since I'm all set up for it, but not many people are happy with fast twist 22-250 when it comes to barrel life.

 

[Sniper338]

22 grendel AI

 

[Evan]

22 grendel AI

An excellent idea! A 40 degree shoulder perhaps 0.010" forward or so and when I neck down the brass from 6.5 down to 22, I set the false shoulder right where the bolt just closes snug on the brass for a perfect fit and minimal stretching on the first fireforming.

 

[Sniper338]

An excellent idea! A 40 degree shoulder perhaps 0.010" forward or so and when I neck down the brass from 6.5 down to 22, I set the false shoulder right where the bolt just closes snug on the brass for a perfect fit and minimal stretching on the first fireforming.

Thats what Id do.. then reloader 15 14 twist and 52 gr bergers.

Your hard pressed for 22-250AI though wanting to push bigger bullets

 

[boltfluter]

3200 fps with an 80 grain is usually .22 Dasher territory in my experience. Grendel is a great cartridge, just not sure if it has enough gas for the job. Fun project you have going on.

Paul

 

[Evan]

3200 fps with an 80 grain is usually .22 Dasher territory in my experience. Grendel is a great cartridge, just not sure if it has enough gas for the job. Fun project you have going on.

Paul

Do you think 3000 is more reasonable to expect? I was thinking that since 223 guys are going 2900+ with stout loads that the grendel could achieve more with a couple grains of additional powder and a stronger case head. I thought I'd read of people taking the 22 BR up to 3200 or so with ~30 grains of powder, and 3400 with a dasher and ~35 grains of powder.

 

[Rodney]

I could be mistaken, but I think that my Rimrock will work with the BR cartridge and the Grendel or ppc case. Been wanting to get into group shooting and was told I could just put a ppc barrel on my action and shoot. Currently I shoot short range BR with a 30 BR. Don’t think you’ll be disappointed with whatever you build with a Borden action. Have fun.

 

[Phil]

.22 BRA???????

 

[boltfluter]

Do you think 3000 is more reasonable to expect? I was thinking that since 223 guys are going 2900+ with stout loads that the grendel could achieve more with a couple grains of additional powder and a stronger case head. I thought I'd read of people taking the 22 BR up to 3200 or so with ~30 grains of powder, and 3400 with a dasher and ~35 grains of powder.

Evan,

No doubt the Grendel will out run the .223. Personally I try not to run my stuff flat out. If I need more speed I just go to a bigger cartridge. Most of my PPC's, BR's seem to run their best at 100 fps or so below max. I have a buddy that hit 3400 with his .22 Dasher. It grouped best at 3200 fps. Just something to consider. Both are amazing cartridges and will serve you well. Have fun!

Paul

 

[MrMajestic]

I'm getting 3050 fps from a 28" 8tw .223AI using Varget and the 80 gr. A-Max seated at 2.495" COL. With the Grendel seated long you should be able to get more with a 30" barrel. That said the previous post is correct with the Dasher at 3200 fps from my 28" 8tw using a bunch of H-4350 and naked bullets. I would have to check the overall but the base is out of the doughnut with my reamer using 80 gr. SMK's and A-Max.

 

[Rockchuck]

Build the 22br very accurate somewhat fast simple case forming.you will love it shoot with 70 to 75gr bullets it the cats meow

 

[steve123]

The easy thing is to do a 22PPC - factory brass. Saves you two neck downs. Want more speed then go 22PPC AI.

 

[Evan]

Made some fun visual comparisons:

22 Grendel , 22 "Dasher-ized" Grendel , 22 BRA all with 88 ELDMs.

My proposed Grendel Dasher above moves the shoulder forward 0.080" and up to a 40 degree angle, leaving 0.200" of neck. Overlaid it looks like this:

This results in a 4.4% increase in volume over the 22 Grendel, or perhaps 29gns up to 30.5gns or so of powder. This should be just about equivalent to the 22 BR, and lag the above shown 22BRA by 5% or so. Other than novelty, I'm not sure there's a great reason to do a Grendel Dasher in a bolt gun.

 

[stacy]

22BR FOR ME SIMPLE SWEET EASY TO TUNE AND PRINTS BUG HOLES !!!!!

 

[Evan]

Evan,

No doubt the Grendel will out run the .223. Personally I try not to run my stuff flat out. If I need more speed I just go to a bigger cartridge. Most of my PPC's, BR's seem to run their best at 100 fps or so below max. I have a buddy that hit 3400 with his .22 Dasher. It grouped best at 3200 fps. Just something to consider. Both are amazing cartridges and will serve you well. Have fun!

Paul

Is there a node somewhere in there for the 80s that shoot best? Kind of like most of the ~105gn 6mm bullets have nodes at 2920, 3050, etc? Or has it not been explored enough to have some common wisdom arise about what speeds to run?

The easy thing is to do a 22PPC - factory brass. Saves you two neck downs. Want more speed then go 22PPC AI.

What does the 22 PPC AI look like performance wise? I'm assuming it looks like 25gns or so of powder behind an 80gn bullet running 2900-3000 tops?

I really want to run something with minimal powder and heat. The 20 Vartarg has taught me the virtues of minimalism in shooting. I can shoot 50 rnds in a row at a steady, moderate pace and not heat the barrel any more than a 5 round group at the same pace with the 22-250 or 6.5 Creedmoor. I now want to build a 22 that gets the 80s up to a speed where they are happy and perform well but doesn't burn up the barrel but I'd like to have more performance than a 223 can muster.

 

[steve123]

Is there a node somewhere in there for the 80s that shoot best? Kind of like most of the ~105gn 6mm bullets have nodes at 2920, 3050, etc? Or has it not been explored enough to have some common wisdom arise about what speeds to run?



What does the 22 PPC AI look like performance wise? I'm assuming it looks like 25gns or so of powder behind an 80gn bullet running 2900-3000 tops?

I really want to run something with minimal powder and heat. The 20 Vartarg has taught me the virtues of minimalism in shooting. I can shoot 50 rnds in a row at a steady, moderate pace and not heat the barrel any more than a 5 round group at the same pace with the 22-250 or 6.5 Creedmoor. I now want to build a 22 that gets the 80s up to a speed where they are happy and perform well but doesn't burn up the barrel but I'd like to have more performance than a 223 can muster.

Probably right in that area with a longer barrel.

Same here for me as well, less is more kind of guy, and I welcome extra barrel life, etc. Had the 20x47, 220 Swifts, 6-284's, etc, just not my thing anymore. Have a 20-221AI now which is my go-to. It's a relief knowing that I will be replacing this barrel 5-10 years from now, instead of the next year or two.

Already had a 223 bolt face on another rifle that got turned into 223AI which is also a less is more cartridge, roughly equivalent to 22PPC. Getting 2813 fps with 88's with it. This is in a single shot rifle with longer freebore.

Might at some point try 22 PPC or the AI version in my Mausingfield with PR mag kits but for now I'm happy with 6mmBR. 6mmBR's are so easy to tune it's silly! Bad groups are .4"! More groups touching inside of .3" than not.