I am having a good friend of mine build me a 22-243 Wincester...Shilen CM 1-9 twist using winchester brass and Varget powder, 75 Gr. Hornady A-Max..I guess my question is how do they perform? Anything to wory about..barrel burners? scattered rounds on paper? I am useing my Mauser 98 action that was chambered in 7x57..Thanks
22-243 ????
- Thread starter msr243ai
- Start date
22-243 is known as the Middlestead. It's a barrel burner!
WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
I shot one of these in competition for a couple of years. Although mine was a 14 twist.
Several things I wanna caution you on. First off they can go from fun to scary AWFUL quick during load development. Second, that was the rifle that caused me to divorce Varget powder.
I used it and shot 52gr match bullets and all was well. Next lot of varget I got I used the same load and it was ugly. Blew primers, almost had to get a hammer to open the bolt. If you are determined to use varget with the heavier bullets, just be darned careful.... (no way I'd use it). Lastly, don't expect a lot of barrel life, even with casual use.
As posted earlier, they're fun while they last as long as you're careful with em. Let us know how it turns out. WD
Several things I wanna caution you on. First off they can go from fun to scary AWFUL quick during load development. Second, that was the rifle that caused me to divorce Varget powder.
I used it and shot 52gr match bullets and all was well. Next lot of varget I got I used the same load and it was ugly. Blew primers, almost had to get a hammer to open the bolt. If you are determined to use varget with the heavier bullets, just be darned careful.... (no way I'd use it). Lastly, don't expect a lot of barrel life, even with casual use. As posted earlier, they're fun while they last as long as you're careful with em. Let us know how it turns out. WD
I was also thinking about h414? I have had very good luck with this powder in my .257 Rob. Another Mauser 98. It (22-243) should be fun to shoot. Accurate too. I like the 22 cal (22-250) baught the rifle for a 243 AI but changed my mind on the 22-243. Going to be a long range coyote killer. Ordered RCBS dies $150.00 OUCH !! Oh well I guess if ya play your gunna pay...Will keep you knowledgable guys informed will be dont in about 2 weeks....
Any caliber can be a barrel burner if you overheat the barrel time after time and abuse it. I think too many people get their heads wrapped around the speeds of wildcats. Sure, it is cool to launch a 55 grain bullet at 4,000 plus FPS but it does not kill any better or any less versus going 3800 or 3900 FPS.
I have a MKI 22 CHeetah with a Douglas barrel that has almost 500 rounds thru the tube. Have I had to change seating depth? Sure, but it still shoots .1 through .3 groups all day long and I have never over heated the barrel.
I really like the .22-243. I have a .22-243 Middlestead with a 1:9 twist that loves 75 gr A-Max's. The dies are expensive and as pointed out & things can from really good to really bad quick if you are not careful. But it is a shooter!
Main thing with these ultra fast wildcats is don't abuse the barrel and don't get caught up in the speed game. Try to stay away from the long stick powder like 4350 or 4064 helps a lot. I like IMR4320 in my CHeetah and Middlestead.
Chris
I have a MKI 22 CHeetah with a Douglas barrel that has almost 500 rounds thru the tube. Have I had to change seating depth? Sure, but it still shoots .1 through .3 groups all day long and I have never over heated the barrel.
I really like the .22-243. I have a .22-243 Middlestead with a 1:9 twist that loves 75 gr A-Max's. The dies are expensive and as pointed out & things can from really good to really bad quick if you are not careful. But it is a shooter!
Main thing with these ultra fast wildcats is don't abuse the barrel and don't get caught up in the speed game. Try to stay away from the long stick powder like 4350 or 4064 helps a lot. I like IMR4320 in my CHeetah and Middlestead.
Chris
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
There are several different versions of the .22/243. The two most popular seem to be the Middlestead and the .22/243 Winchester. The only real difference between the two is the shoulder angle. They can both be hard on barrels. Either would be at their best with 80g. or heavier projectiles, IMO.superlight93 said:
Maybe 700 rounds of barrel life and now you have a Tomatoe stake.
Thanks guys I really appreciate the help..You guys also stated that the 22-243 Win is the SAME as a 22-243 Middlestead or close to it? Shoulder angle difference ? I'm going to use this as a Pdoger and coyotes. Its not going to be shot like a semi-auto by anymeans..But someone also stated that as long as I dont over-heat the barrel I should be fine....How hot is too hot? I suppose hot is when I can't keep my hand on the tube for longer then a few seconds ?. I know it will never end up getting that hot anyway. Or any of my guns...Thanks
MSR -
Howdy !
Well..... if you are looking for various opinions, here's another.....
Do you really, really have to have all the vel a .22-243 can muster ?
I shot a wiildcat .224" calibre case with capacity approx 4gr less than a .243Win.
From a 28" .224" cal 1-8 5-groove SS barrel, I was able to easily put 3,500fps on a 75"A"-Max.
And that, was with a comparatively modest 40.5gr charge of AA3100, and FED Magnum Match.
That made that gun a viable 1,000yd rifle for use on things lke groundhog, or paper shoots
In 24" 1-14 SS 5-groove configuration, I shot a hyper accurate and devastating load of 41.2gr
Howdy !
Well..... if you are looking for various opinions, here's another.....
Do you really, really have to have all the vel a .22-243 can muster ?
I shot a wiildcat .224" calibre case with capacity approx 4gr less than a .243Win.
From a 28" .224" cal 1-8 5-groove SS barrel, I was able to easily put 3,500fps on a 75"A"-Max.
And that, was with a comparatively modest 40.5gr charge of AA3100, and FED Magnum Match.
That made that gun a viable 1,000yd rifle for use on things lke groundhog, or paper shoots
In 24" 1-14 SS 5-groove configuration, I shot a hyper accurate and devastating load of 41.2gr
Oops !
What I was stating is that 41.2gr WW760 and FED Magnum Match under Hornady 55SX was loafing @ 3,690fps. It was both my accuracy and field load. That 1-14 barrel lasted 3,420rnds before it ever keyholed its first bullet. And that happened, after a couple of years of intially using an uncoated steel cleaning rod on the barrel ( AAaakkk !! ) and also after having an ill-advised cryo' done on the barrel; at a comparativley-late point in its life. " Mistake #206 "
My point, I never felt I had to have more vel from either the 24" 1-14 twist barrel, or from the 28" 1-8.
At the same time , I got to make a lot of gratifying shots on gargantuan NE Indiana " Soybeanus Digestus "; including the occasional spectacular kill. The power was there, and then some.
Also wanted to add.... since my .224" cal wildcat was new & original, there was no load data out there.
I worked diligently to find the best load for that first ( 1-14 ) barrel. Trying ALL those powders and ALL those bullets, varioius primers and seating depths took me 450rnds.
For the 1-8 twist barrel, I pre-selected the sole use of 75"A"-Max; and took only 63 rnds to get it all sorte-out.
My point:
IMHO.... 700 - 1000 rnds usefull life for the barrel on an $$$ varmint /target rifle does not strike me as all that attractive proposition. Such barrel life quotes were a big reason why my custom rifle ended up chambered for my .22-35 widlcat; and not my original idea of shooting .30 cal 110HPs from a
.30-378WB.
And if I might... one last input for your consideration:
Varget is too fast a powder, to be th ebest possible choice for a .22-243.
By way of comparison, my .22-35 worked best w/ WW760 ( same thing as H414 ) in the 55SX and 1-14 combo.
AA3100 worked best shooting 75"A"-Max from the 1-8 28".
With all the case capacity the .22-243 presents, your powder choices would in all likelyhood be those slower than AA3100. Safe load pressures and longer barrel life would also tend to bias powder choices in the s-l-o-w-e-r burn rate direction.
Again.... IMHO.
Best of luck in your endeavors !
With regards,
357Mag
What I was stating is that 41.2gr WW760 and FED Magnum Match under Hornady 55SX was loafing @ 3,690fps. It was both my accuracy and field load. That 1-14 barrel lasted 3,420rnds before it ever keyholed its first bullet. And that happened, after a couple of years of intially using an uncoated steel cleaning rod on the barrel ( AAaakkk !! ) and also after having an ill-advised cryo' done on the barrel; at a comparativley-late point in its life. " Mistake #206 "
My point, I never felt I had to have more vel from either the 24" 1-14 twist barrel, or from the 28" 1-8.
At the same time , I got to make a lot of gratifying shots on gargantuan NE Indiana " Soybeanus Digestus "; including the occasional spectacular kill. The power was there, and then some.
Also wanted to add.... since my .224" cal wildcat was new & original, there was no load data out there.
I worked diligently to find the best load for that first ( 1-14 ) barrel. Trying ALL those powders and ALL those bullets, varioius primers and seating depths took me 450rnds.
For the 1-8 twist barrel, I pre-selected the sole use of 75"A"-Max; and took only 63 rnds to get it all sorte-out.
My point:
IMHO.... 700 - 1000 rnds usefull life for the barrel on an $$$ varmint /target rifle does not strike me as all that attractive proposition. Such barrel life quotes were a big reason why my custom rifle ended up chambered for my .22-35 widlcat; and not my original idea of shooting .30 cal 110HPs from a
.30-378WB.
And if I might... one last input for your consideration:
Varget is too fast a powder, to be th ebest possible choice for a .22-243.
By way of comparison, my .22-35 worked best w/ WW760 ( same thing as H414 ) in the 55SX and 1-14 combo.
AA3100 worked best shooting 75"A"-Max from the 1-8 28".
With all the case capacity the .22-243 presents, your powder choices would in all likelyhood be those slower than AA3100. Safe load pressures and longer barrel life would also tend to bias powder choices in the s-l-o-w-e-r burn rate direction.
Again.... IMHO.
Best of luck in your endeavors !
With regards,
357Mag
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
They are not the same. They do share the same body dimentions. The shoulder angle (20* for the Win., 30* for the Middlestead) and the resulting neck length (longer on the Middlestead) is where the difference is at. However, starting loads for the Middlestead, which are relatively easy to find, work well for starting loads for the Winchester. The Middlestead case is made by fireforming the .22-243 Winchester in a Middlestead chamber. Velocities for either round range in the 3100-3500fps area (with heavy for caliber bullets), depending on the barrel, bullet, and load, of course.msr243ai said:
Larryh128
Silver $$ Contributor
If are using H414 , it is mandatory to use a magnum primer or your results won't be good. A friend had a "barrel burner" 6 x 284 that was still a one hole rifle after a couple thousand down the tube. Big trick is not to run them at the top. I suspect that a lot of barrels would make another thousand rounds if the fire was a little less intense.
Larryh128
Silver $$ Contributor
The very best performance with H414 will come from (in my experience) using magnum primers. Will standard work? Yes they will but 414 is a powder that is harder to light & there can be a dramatic increase in both accuracy and velocity by using mag primers. Switching from standard to magnum at the same charge has taken a load from patterns to bug hole. I said the same thing until I tryed it. 
I shot over 1,000 rounds from my 22-243AI before accuracy began to go erode. I never shot it hot and always kept the bore clean. I shot moly coated bullets exclusively. Accuracy was incredible with RE 22. Eventually, I set the barrel back and rechambered it. The rifle is still going strong. Treat them right and they'll last a looong time and provide many years of LR hunting.
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