21st Century Hydro Seater help needed.

[Mcallum3]

I'll start off by giving some background hoping for a little leniency with my ignorance. I have a great friend/workmate that has been doing the BR game for a little while. I have accompanied him several times to various matches and actually joined a really cool club called Red, White and Blue in Tennille Ga. About a year ago I decided to try putting a BR program together of my own, starting from nothing, and acquiring pieces as funds become available. As you can imagine, I do not know hardly anything about reloading. I have sat in and watched my friend on a couple of occasions when he has been doing some reloading and when trying to sort out something in my head have called on another fella, that has been very patient with me. Neither one of these gentlemen have ever used a Hydro Seater. They have been doing reloading long enough to have "the feel". Obviously, me having never reloaded, does not have "the feel". So, I purchased a used Hydro Seater and got it in the mail a couple of days ago. I actually had an opportunity to play with it for a few minutes today and immediately come across an issue that has me stumped. Finally, to the question, I do apologize for being so long winded.

When pulling on the handle, there is zero pressure until the arbor shaft comes in contact with the seater die and actually starts seating the bullet. Once the the bullet starts seating, the pressure continues to increase until the seater die bottoms out. If I am watching the gauge and the die bottoms out, the pressure continues to increase the more I pull on the handle. Now I have no idea what actual pressure was needed to seat the bullet. If I am watching for the seater die to bottom out, and go a few thousandths shy or a few thousandths past (guessing) then pause to look at the gauge, I am not getting an accurate reading there as well. I have watched several YouTube videos trying to sort this out and have yet to find anything. Anyone have any experience with this? Am I doing something wrong? Is there a simple easy fix for this? Or, is this a legitimate issue?
Thanks in advance for any help

 

[DngBat7]

When the arbor comes in contact with the top of the die, I push the handle with really really light pressure very very slow. It gradually builds pressure and when the bullet slips in you will see a little skip or hiccup in on the pressure gauge. And take note of where that happens on the gauge. But again I find, I have to do this really slow or it is easily missed.

 

[fisherman987]

Like x-47 said, you lower the handle on the press until it just touches the die. Then you very slowly apply more and more pressure and you'll see the needle slowly rise. All of a sudden, the bullet will penetrate into the case neck. Take note what the max pressure was when this happens. Next, continue to slowly press down on the handle, and you will see the pressure gradually rise as the bullet seats deeper and deeper in the case. Again take note what the pressure reaches at the exact moment the die bottoms out. That is your max seating pressure. The trick is applying slow and gradual pressure.

 

[stuann]

Is it easier to document seating force wth k&m?

 

[David Christian]

Just stop a bit short and read. Slow stroke is the key.

 

[Mcallum3]

So, what I am gathering from what X-47B is saying, the pressure will continue to increase until the bullet has pushed past the case neck tension I have set, then will decrease somewhat. Whatever the highest pressure reading is, (just before pushing past the tension) is the reading I am looking for. Is this correct? If so, sounds easy enough.

 

[Sandstorm]

Its not important what the actual pressure is...whats important is that all your bullets seat at the same
pressure...I separate the real odd balls for foulers and sighters.

 

[DngBat7]

Is it easier to document seating force wth k&m?

I have both. Similar, but 21st is more consistent I feel

 

[Mcallum3]

Anyone have any idea what kind of pressure to expect from Lapua brass 6BR and .002 neck tension? Also, does the type of bullet have any affect on seating pressure? I will be starting out with the Sierra Match King 107's

 

[Dave M.]

I'll start off by giving some background hoping for a little leniency with my ignorance. I have a great friend/workmate that has been doing the BR game for a little while. I have accompanied him several times to various matches and actually joined a really cool club called Red, White and Blue in Tennille Ga. About a year ago I decided to try putting a BR program together of my own, starting from nothing, and acquiring pieces as funds become available. As you can imagine, I do not know hardly anything about reloading. I have sat in and watched my friend on a couple of occasions when he has been doing some reloading and when trying to sort out something in my head have called on another fella, that has been very patient with me. Neither one of these gentlemen have ever used a Hydro Seater. They have been doing reloading long enough to have "the feel". Obviously, me having never reloaded, does not have "the feel". So, I purchased a used Hydro Seater and got it in the mail a couple of days ago. I actually had an opportunity to play with it for a few minutes today and immediately come across an issue that has me stumped. Finally, to the question, I do apologize for being so long winded.

When pulling on the handle, there is zero pressure until the arbor shaft comes in contact with the seater die and actually starts seating the bullet. Once the the bullet starts seating, the pressure continues to increase until the seater die bottoms out. If I am watching the gauge and the die bottoms out, the pressure continues to increase the more I pull on the handle. Now I have no idea what actual pressure was needed to seat the bullet. If I am watching for the seater die to bottom out, and go a few thousandths shy or a few thousandths past (guessing) then pause to look at the gauge, I am not getting an accurate reading there as well. I have watched several YouTube videos trying to sort this out and have yet to find anything. Anyone have any experience with this? Am I doing something wrong? Is there a simple easy fix for this? Or, is this a legitimate issue?
Thanks in advance for any help

Exactly why the force gauge is rarely used in my reloading setup anymore. Use the arbor press as designed and when you feel ones that take significantly more or less force (set these aside for foulers and sighters). Be very careful with ones that take vert little force to seat. You will likely be able to pull the bullet out by hand. You don’t want to use these rounds in your rifle because it can cause all sorts of problems.
Dave

 

[Dave M.]

Is it easier to document seating force wth k&m?

Nope. They are all going to spike quickly when the seater stem unit contacts the body of the seater.

 

[mfendley]

Anyone have any idea what kind of pressure to expect from Lapua brass 6BR and .002 neck tension? Also, does the type of bullet have any affect on seating pressure? I will be starting out with the Sierra Match King 107's

It depends on how you clean your brass. For me, with a 6BRX seating either Bart's or Berger 105s, for new or SS pins cleaned brass, 80-90 lbf. With the brass cleaned by tumbling in rice, 8-12 lbf. I use rice exclusively now.

These numbers are from my K&M with force pack.

 

[Dave M.]

Anyone have any idea what kind of pressure to expect from Lapua brass 6BR and .002 neck tension? Also, does the type of bullet have any affect on seating pressure? I will be starting out with the Sierra Match King 107's

Between 10-25lbs seating force on the K&M gauge.

 

[nakneker]

I wouldn’t get caught up trying to find the perfect seating force number. I would look for consistency in seating force as mentioned above. I have the 21st century force gauge press. I like it but I still use their standard arbor press a lot too. Feel isn’t the difficult to learn, the more you do it the more you’ll get a “feel“ for what you’re after. Most of what I do on an arbor press is two thou neck tension, the bullets seat pretty easily and you’ll definitely feel when one is harder or easier, as mentioned above just put those to the side if you find encounter those, good sighters.. Also, new brass needs to be sized and the neck tension set before loading or you’ll find neck tension is all over the place, rarely do I find new brass with the neck tension I want.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

If I can feel smoothness when setting I’m happy I don’t use a gauge

 

[Ccrider]

Is it easier to document seating force wth k&m?

No.

 

[Ccrider]

I have had a K&M and now have a 21st Century. Most of the time, I use my regular arbor press. It is quicker and I can get exact seating depth easier with it than the hydro press.

If you use any type of line in your necks, it will reduce the pressure on the gauge. You can debate what the pressure measurement means and how much variations in seating pressure show up on the target.

The true focus should be on consistent case prep. I would say put the hydro seater to the side, get a regular arbor press and concentrate on case prep first, and then learn how to develop loads.

 

[Mcallum3]

Thanks everyone for all the input. I think I've picked up enough info to get me going in good directions. I will say, after reading Ccrider's last post , I think I may be getting a little ahead of myself worrying about seating pressure. I believe I need to start trying to find some articles on case prepping and sort that out first.
Thanks again everyone.