20P, 40gr and cfe223

[Fast14riot]

Anyone use CFE223 in their 20 Practical with 40gr class bullets? I have 3 pounds of shooters world match rifle which I can use the starting data for CFE223, just need to know where to start.

What velocity are you seeing?

LC brass
Rem 7-1/2
39gr TNT
24" poly 10 twist
AR platform.

 

[nmkid]

No help here. I only tried 2 powders initially with my 20P. N-133 and H-335. Both shot great with 40 gr. Hornady's. I just went with H-335 because I could more of it.

 

[jepp2]

just need to know where to start

A good starting point for 20P is to use 20 Tactical loads. But if you look on the Hodgdon reloading website, they don't list CFE223 for the 20 Tactical. That is a pretty slow burn rate powder for the 20P.

 

[Fast14riot]

A good starting point for 20P is to use 20 Tactical loads. But if you look on the Hodgdon reloading website, they don't list CFE223 for the 20 Tactical. That is a pretty slow burn rate powder for the 20P.

They also don't list 40gr bullets. I've used 20Tac data before for starting loads. I usually load BLC2 or H335 for my 20p, but won this powder in a raffle and would like to use it in something. Maybe my 6.8.

 

[jepp2]

Here is what QL predicts if you want to give it a try. I put in my WC (30.6 for LC vs 29.0 QL default), so yours might be different. I also haven't added your bullet so I used the Sierra 39 gr BLTK. You know the drill, start low and work up.

Cartridge          : .20-223  20 Tactical
Bullet             : .204, 39, Sierra BLTK 1039C
Useable Case Capaci: 28.617 grain H2O = 1.858 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon CFE223

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.5% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-15.0   82    24.23   3095     830   32390   7252     86.8    1.177
-13.5   84    24.65   3152     861   34093   7420     88.0    1.154
-12.0   85    25.08   3210     892   35891   7583     89.1    1.131
-10.5   87    25.51   3267     924   37786   7742     90.1    1.107
-09.0   88    25.94   3325     957   39798   7894     91.2    1.081
-07.5   90    26.36   3382     991   41921   8041     92.1    1.057
-06.0   91    26.79   3440    1025   44166   8182     93.1    1.032
-04.5   93    27.22   3498    1059   46543   8315     94.0    1.008
-03.0   94    27.65   3555    1095   49062   8441     94.8    0.986  ! Near Maximum !
-01.5   96    28.07   3613    1130   51732   8559     95.6    0.963  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   97    28.50   3671    1167   54561   8669     96.3    0.941  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.5   98    28.93   3728    1204   57566   8770     96.9    0.920  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  100    29.36   3786    1241   60758   8862     97.5    0.899  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.5  101    29.78   3843    1279   64152   8944     98.1    0.879  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  103    30.21   3900    1317   67763   9017     98.5    0.859  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.5  104    30.64   3957    1356   71610   9079     98.9    0.840  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     97    28.50   3869    1296   66179   8666     99.7    0.869  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     97    28.50   3414    1009   44418   8203     88.5    1.033

 

[searcher]

I also think powders with a burn-rate like CFE would be a bit slow. Using LT-32, my cases are about full at 24.5 grains, You might want to fill a case with your powder just to see if your case can hold enough powder to give you the velocity you expect to get - maybe even use the above chart as a rough guide. It looks like you may be doomed to lower velocities.Good luck, though.

 

[Fast14riot]

Hmm, I'm not dead set on using this powder in the 20, just was hoping I could. I have a 6.8 and a 5.56 I could use it in but I have good loads for those already.

 

[hogpatrol]

AR 1-10, 24", I use 133, less dirty, more shooting before cleaning but 335 is a proven powder also. I use CCI BR4s. The 7 1/2s were too hot with the same loads. I use the same powder in a bolt 20P.

 

[Justin B]

I did use allot of CFE no data other than it grouped well with 32s not bad with 40s as well. The problem I have with it is it stinks to high heavens everyone in my group said it smelled like I shit my pants when I touched a few rounds off.

Hogpatrol . Do you think I should switch away from the 7.5 primers when running the vv133 powder?

 

[hogpatrol]

I did use allot of CFE no data other than it grouped well with 32s not bad with 40s as well. The problem I have with it is it stinks to high heavens everyone in my group said it smelled like I shit my pants when I touched a few rounds off.

Hogpatrol . Do you think I should switch away from the 7.5 primers when running the vv133 powder?

In my rifle, BR4s gave the best accuracy with 133. I don't know what kind of accuracy you are getting but if it isn't satisfactory, I'd try either the CCI 200s or BR4s. I'm using Remington range brass.

 

[ratbuster]

25.1 to 25.7 gr Benchmark, CCI 450's and Hornady 40 Vmax. Velocities in the 3800's. Temperature stable and accurate.

 

[hogpatrol]

25.1 to 25.7 gr Benchmark, CCI 450's and Hornady 40 Vmax. Velocities in the 3800's. Temperature stable and accurate.

Is that in an AR?

 

[ratbuster]

Hogpatrol,

That load is used in two different bolt guns, 26" barrels. I built a precision 20P AR but promptly sold it. It was accurate enough but not my cup of tea.

Before I got an FXi powder measure with Auto Trickler I used H335 because it meters well enough to drop powder charges with acceptable consistency so I could avoid measuring each charge. This was welcome relief in reloading for high volume ground squirrel shooting but I quit using it because it was too temperature sensitive. In fact the temp sensitivity of H335 was the primary impetus to spend $650 on the FXi.

Benchmark is far less sensitive and burns cleaner too. I like it alot.

Phil

 

[hogpatrol]

Hogpatrol,

That load is used in two different bolt guns, 26" barrels. I built a precision 20P AR but promptly sold it. It was accurate enough but not my cup of tea.

Before I got an FXi powder measure with Auto Trickler I used H335 because it meters well enough to drop powder charges with acceptable consistency so I could avoid measuring each charge. This was welcome relief in reloading for high volume ground squirrel shooting but I quit using it because it was too temperature sensitive. In fact the temp sensitivity of H335 was the primary impetus to spend $650 on the FXi.

Benchmark is far less sensitive and burns cleaner too. I like it alot.

Phil

Roger that. Those loads seemed hot for a AR. Mine and others preference for 133 is for the same reasons albeit the price turns off some shooters.

 

[ratbuster]

Roger that. Those loads seemed hot for a AR. Mine and others preference for 133 is for the same reasons albeit the price turns off some shooters.

So an AR needs a lower charge than a bolt gun? Are the chambers designed for lower pressures or is there some other reason?

 

[EXTREME]

Anyone use CFE223 in their 20 Practical with 40gr class bullets? I have 3 pounds of shooters world match rifle which I can use the starting data for CFE223, just need to know where to start.

What velocity are you seeing?

LC brass
Rem 7-1/2
39gr TNT
24" poly 10 twist
AR platform.

I tested CFE 223 in my 20-223 EXTREME which holds just slightly less than a 20- P fire form load due to the 30 degree shoulder and longer neck. However capacity under the bullet would be similar to 20 P fireformed. I used New Lapua 223 Match brass, Rem 7 1/2 primers in a 24" Pac Nor barrel. At 22.6 grains MV was 3750 with ES at 98 and SD at 45.1 and going to 26.7 the MV was 3730 but ES and SD climbed to 126 and 49.5 respectively and accuracy went from bad to terrible. This was at 28 Celsius and pressures were already running over MAX so backing off would be the way to with the 39 BK. ES and SD, as well as accuracy, should improve and you could find a good safe load at around 3600 fps. The only way you can improve on this velocity with a faster powder is by running much higher pressures that Quickload would consider Near Maximum or Dangerous in the 20 P.

 

[germanlongbow]

N133 goto powder for 20 Practical and 39-40 gr pills. Clean compared to other powders.

 

[LitLBoy]

8208XBR with Fed. match primer and 39 BLK's works really well also.

 

[Fast14riot]

Ok, I've been convinced enough to not try it in my 20P, I'll find something else to use it in. I'll stick with the standards for my 20.

 

[Justin B]

Is benchmark about as clean as 133?