20BR vs 20PPC

[rick06]

Could someone please explain the differance between 20BR and 20PPC? Which one is more accurate? which one is easiest to load for? thanks.

 

[SongdogHunter]

Personally I think a lot depends on what bullet you intend to use what what range you intend to shoot at. I do feel the PPC is one of the best rounds there is for the twentys.

SDH

 

[caroby]

Rick,

I have accumulated a fair piece of experience with the .20 cal...

First, this is NOT a longrange caliber... IMOP > 600 YDS...Some do... But ya got to be honest with yourself about distance.
I actually keep'em under 450 or so... No matter what the wind is doin. The .20's are at their best < 500yds...And cases like you are interested in just arn't needed... Some will disagree.

Your courious about accuracy in two truly overbore cartridges as far as based on a .20 is concerned. Obviously the 20PPC is less overbore than the 20BR.... With that said they 'can' shoot well with GOOD bullets and GOOD equiptment/shooting technique.
But I KNOW the 20BR is just not a good platform...,Really getting feathers ruffled now...!)

Cases like your interested in will NOT be more accurate than a well tuned .222/223 based 20 cal. Even the 20ppc will burn WAY more powder than is nessisary / muzzle blast and recoil / IS much tougher on the barrels throat and will flat out destroy a GOOD barrels throat < 1000 rounds.... I HAVE SEEN IT..!
A 20BR is WAY WORSE...!>>> Have seen a Pacnor .20 3-groove SSS barrel throat BLASTED 1 1/4 inch of the throat and the throat had no rifling for 1/4' ahead of where the throat 'was'. This from a 20BR...Even the 204Rug is a bit on the overbore side of things... Some are bound to disagree...

Think it's just a Pacnor issue.... Nope. A Shilen 20BR did not fair any better, <600 rounds showed SIGNIFICANT throat erosion.

Look at the .222/223 based 20 cal cartridges.

Lottsa choises here... I really like my .20-222... Accuracy.. YES. Good barrel life YES. Velocity....Yes..! Not even hot loads and I get honest 4000 with a 32gr pill. 3750 - 3850 from a 39/40gr pill... Easily.. No bull! Heck, I get 4300fps outta a factory Savage action/Pacnor 3-groove .20-222 with the 32gr V-max. Bolt just gets 'clicky' accuracy falls of a tad to just .5 MOA but boy ZIP... Crows go POOF..!

Question is, are you 'stuck' with a .308 bolt face..??? Don't have a .223 bolt face rifle..?

Could someone please explain the differance between 20BR and 20PPC? Which one is more accurate? which one is easiest to load for? thanks.

Rather than explaining the differences... I'd recommend stear'n clear of these.
Probably the most user friendly easy to reload for IMOP is the 20Practical.... Based on the .223 case... Oh AND it SHOOTS.!

Hope this helps ya getting started in the .20 cals in a more well $$$ spent manner / less frustration...

cale

 

[SongdogHunter]

Cale, its comes down to the point of diminishing returns.
velocity vs' powder.

But don't knock the PPC or BR based rounds as not being a good platform. If you wish to compare trajectory and ballistics between a 22 and 20 caliber you will be surprised.

But what your saying is a .223/ .222 will be more accutate than a Br or PPC based round?

Hmmmm!

Since when did any seasoned wildcatter need a reason to chamber another barrel regardless if it is prudent or not.


SDH

 

[RJinTexas]

Rick, I agree with Cale, even Todd Kindler editor of Small Caliber New Magazine states that the 20ppc and 20br are overbore. He said ' The 20 Lapua BR based on Lapua 6 BR brass is the Big 20 caliber at this time, by big I mean the largest case we've tested to this point and still has some velocity gain'. His book the Terrific Twenties shows 20BR chronographed velocity of over 4400fps with 32 & 33gr SPL coated bullets. With that kind of speed there's going to be throat erosion. I personally own three 20 cal rifles a 204, 20Tac and a 20VT and really enjoy all three but the prairie dogs hate em. Another advantage to you choosing the Practical you can get by using your Redding bushing .223 dies, you'll only need to purchased the smaller bushings and readily available brass.

Regards
RJ

 

[MarkS]

rick06,

Both are very good rounds and equally accurate. I had a 20BR 9TW barrel to shoot 50gr bullets. I sold to fund a new project.

It depends what you are wnating to do with the gun. For PD you want need anything bigger than a 40 gr bullet. I think the BR case is not need for bullets less than 50gr.

The PPC will do everything that the BR will do with 40 gr and less, with less powder.

I picked up a used Savage in 204 Ruger and added a 223 barrel. I wanted a high volume gun for PD.

My next project will be a custom 223 bolt with a 223Ai & a 20 cal of some kind 20 Tac or 20VT. I am leaning to the 20VT to shoot 32 gr bullets.

I would go with the PPC for lighter bullets, or the 20BR if you want to shoot heavier bullets.

Check out this site for more 20 cal info http://www.saubier.com/forum.html

Mark Schronce

 

[topwater225]

I will throw my 2 cents in...and I will agree with most of what others are saying. I just finished my .20BR and before I decided to go that route, I researched the heck out of it. The decision maker is the fact that I was only interested in the Berger 55's, and boy am I glad. That bullet truly extends the range of the .20BR WAY past 600, let alone 450!!

I just got back from shooting 1000 yards and it is one flat shooting/good grouping SOB. Plus that case when loaded with the 55's are so cool looking

In comparison, I've had .204 rugers and I promise you that the .20BR shooting 55 grain VLD's is in a completely different league...and I think the .204 ruger more compares to the 20 Practical, 20TAC and the .20/222.

There was actually a kid out with us shooting his .204 at a 1000 at a rock, and we struggled to even see where he was hitting, but there was NO DOUBT about the .20BR.

So, all that being said....from my experience if you are not going to shoot the 55's, I would probably choose another,user friendly) round, like the 20 Practical.

 

[rick06]

thank you all very much for the replies,you have saved me a lot of time,worry and not to mention $$$.I really appriciate the time and effort and sharing of your knowledge,i will now look at the 20 practicle.

 

[caroby]

Cale, its comes down to the point of diminishing returns.
velocity vs' powder.

But don't knock the PPC or BR based rounds as not being a good platform. If you wish to compare trajectory and ballistics between a 22 and 20 caliber you will be surprised.

But what your saying is a .223/ .222 will be more accutate than a Br or PPC based round?

Hmmmm!




SDH

No, but what I did say is.......

'Cases like your interested in will NOT be more accurate than a well tuned .222/223 based 20 cal.'

NOT that the .223/222 based cases are MORE accurate but they will be accurate longer due to a bit easier on the throat.

I do agree with your comment SDH....

'Since when did any seasoned wildcatter need a reason to chamber another barrel regardless if it is prudent or not.'

Wow...!
'I promise you that the .20BR shooting 55 grain VLD's is in a completely different league... '

Sounds fun.......But it's gotta still be rough on the throats... Aw heck, SOUNDS like fun..!

cale

 

[topwater225]

'I promise you that the .20BR shooting 55 grain VLD's is in a completely different league... '

Sounds fun.......But it's gotta still be rough on the throats... Aw heck, SOUNDS like fun..!

cale

I am shooting the only 20BR that I have ever owned, so I can't say from experience how the throat will do.

But when you think about it, I am only using 30 grains of powder to shoot a 55 grain VLD at 3600 fps. That is NOT an obvious recipe for quick throat erosion. You may have more of an argument with bullets in the 32-40 grain range where you are throwing more powder and getting over 4000 fps. But I highly doubt that quick throat erosion will be an issue with the 55's.

And by the way - the BR case is a GREAT platform for a 20 caliber and 55 grain VLD's.

 

[Rodbolt]

I have 6-- 20BR rifles, Bartlien, Hart, PacNor and Lilja barrels on factory and custom actions. Also have more smaller 20 cal's, mostly 204 Ruger with factory and custom barrels. I do not have a 20PPC but would not discourage it at all, in fact if I didn't have a couple thousand 20BR Lapua brass I'd try it. The 20PPC case capacity is the same as a Winchester 204Ruger but running the PPC at higher pressure results in more FPS. I think the 204R-20PPC capacity is a sweet spot for the 20's. The 20 practical is a little short on powder to sling a 39 or 40 grain bullet but if you only shoot 32's-35's it's fine, may more then a 32gr needs. The 20Tac holds slightly less powder,2-3grains) then a 204Ruger and while a great performer in a custom chamber/barrel I prefer a match chamber in 204Ruger with Winchester brass. Most folks compare the 20 Tac to a factory 204Ruger, yet the factory barrels have loose chambers and LONNGG freebore. I've got two 204R barrels with well over 1000 rounds of 39gr BlitzKings in the prairie dog fields that show VERY little wear. These were shot with a BLC-2,ball powder=high erosion??) but now I use VV N133,cleaner, less temp/pressure). I settled on the 39 Sierra BK for its great BC, accuracy and expansion. I agree that 600 yards is pretty much max for the 204 but it's a laser compared to 'long range' cartridges like a 6mmBR with heavy bullets, out to 400 yards the 39BK make PD hits and seeing them too easy and barrel stay cool. My 22-250AIs and 223AIs stay at home.

I like the 20BR for a host of reasons, easier to load then skinny cases, will exceed 4000fps with 39/40 bullets with a very mild load,ever heat soak cartridges while PD shooting?), cases last forever and it's accuracy is addicting. All my BRs outshoot all the skinny cased 20's, though for field shooting the difference means little. The extra fps of the 20BR hits a bit harder but didn't extend practical range very much. The muzzle blast is a bit more but the barrel heat is similar to a 204R or 20Tac.

I no longer have any fast twist barrels so can't try the new 55 grain Berger but the 50's didn't out perform the 40's. The 32 grain bullets are like a 40 or 50grain .223, good only for short range, but very accurate up close. I see no reason for using a 32gr in a .204R or 20BR.

I've got two 20BR barrels with over 500 rounds of N135 and Blitzkings, borescoped this spring and both show a tiny amount of fire cracking, no throat erosion. I don't expect the BR barrels to last like a 204R but do expect better life then a 22-250 or .243W.