204 Ruger cases won't fit even after FL sizing

[ranger3]

I have two 204 Ruger rifles and just fired over a hundred rounds in my 700 Remington. Now after resizing, they won't chamber in either my savage or Remington. I have measured the based, the shoulder and the length, some are over length a bit. Has anyone experienced this. The Redding Tech person thinks it's my shellholders because they are not Redding. They are Lee and RCBS. He thinks they just don't get my headspace right. Any ideas on how to save about 400 pcs of Brass?

 

[rwj]

Ask Redding for the offset distance between the top of their shell holder and the surface on which the case rests. If it’s less than the shell holders you’re currently using, that may well be the issue. Easy to remedy, just remove material from the top of your shell holders and/or the die end face to increase the sizing stroke.

 

[ranger3]

Thanks, I'll do that. I actually did measure that offset on the three shellholders I have. I'll call Redding in the a.m. .

 

[243winxb]

Turn the fl die down more when sizing.


Shell holders are standard +/- .001" Deck heigth .125"

The only exception is Redding Competition shell holders, they are different.

 

[JSH]

You resized them and they got bigger?

I can see them grow some in neck length.
Are you rifles factory or custom chambers?

 

[AlNyhus]

I have two 204 Ruger rifles and just fired over a hundred rounds in my 700 Remington. Now after resizing, they won't chamber in either my savage or Remington.

How are you measuring the base-to-datum line to determine where the shoulder is on a sized case relative to a sized case? -Al

 

[ranger3]

I'm using the Hornady LNL headspace gauges. It measures 1.5620 fired and a sized case measures (give or take) 1.515 . That's the problem, not much difference for resizing. The neck grows and I'm going to trim some cases today to see if that matters. I appreciate all the help and will let all of you know if I get this solved. The case doesn't grow, I have measured all of other critical dimensions and they are all in spec.

 

[IowaGeologist]

I'm using the Hornady LNL headspace gauges. It measures 1.5620 fired and a sized case measures (give or take) 1.515 . That's the problem, not much difference for resizing. The neck grows and I'm going to trim some cases today to see if that matters. I appreciate all the help and will let all of you know if I get this solved. The case doesn't grow, I have measured all of other critical dimensions and they are all in spec.

Did you type the numbers correctly? 0.047 is a crazy amount of setback on a case. 0.002-.005 is normal.

 

[jepp2]

You resized them and they got bigger?

They typically do if your don't have your die set low enough to bump the shoulder. Photo courtesy of Unclenick from TFL forum.

 

[B23]

As shown in the illustration jepp2 posted the base to shoulder length will actually grow, get longer, nearly every time when FL sizing cases if the die isn't screwed down far enough. It generally takes the FL die being screwed down far enough to where you get a certain amount of "cam over" on your press before it pushes the shoulder back.

I'd bet you don't have your FL die screwed down far enough and you aren't getting much or any cam over on your press. A lot of people freak the eff out when you talk about cam over but a certain amount is, typically, required to FL resize cases or they come out of the die, longer, from base to shoulder. And before someone goes all ape shit crazy talking about how cam over will break your press blah blah blah, I'm talking about a reasonable amount of cam over, NOT, extreme cam over with a two foot cheater bar on the handle.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Your fired case(hopefully clean and deprimed) measurement is ballpark with my comparator #. If the fired brass chambers without extra bolt effort(bolt - pin and spring removed) no reason to move the shoulders at all. Your # are very close to what I see if first measurement is the A330 body and 2nd with the B 350, did you change comparator bodies while setting up sizing die?

 

[JSH]

I get them growing in length.
OD is what I was wondering.
I have seen cases that buckled at the neck from being to long when FL sized.
Oversized chambers, brass then run into a FL size I have seen messed up where they wouldn’t chamber.

 

[AZROY]

I get them growing in length.
OD is what I was wondering.
I have seen cases that buckled at the neck from being to long when FL sized.
Oversized chambers, brass then run into a FL size I have seen messed up where they wouldn’t chamber.

Not sure if this appllcable but in my experience with 2 different Shilen based 20 Practical rifles using Redding Type S die the die does not resize the base area. The chamber is slightly larger on one rifle. I have reverted to using an RCBS 223 die first and the Redding die. Problem solved. Redding recommended small base die. my opinion is the Redding Type S die does not size base area enough.

 

[AZROY]

Not sure if this appllcable but in my experience with 2 different Shilen based 20 Practical rifles using Redding Type S die the die does not resize the base area. The chamber is slightly larger on one rifle. I have reverted to using an RCBS 223 die first and the Redding die. Problem solved. Redding recommended small base die. my opinion is the Redding Type S die does not size base area enough.

PS: I am using RCBS shell holder

 

[ranger3]

Well I talk to another redding tec person today and hes of the opinion that it's a matter of not sizing the brass enough so he said to turn down the die a little more and it's does not take
very much because a few pieces here and they will go. Great advice. I did sand down a shellholder and will see what that does. Won't get at that until tonight though.

 

[terrace]

Doesn't help your problem now but size a few pieces and chamber them before proceeding

 

[ranger3]

That's what I do so no big do overs. Thanks though.

 

[varget204]

Mic fired cases,get a headspace comparator, measure headspace on fired case,lower die to bump shoulder,.001-.002, after resizing trim to 1.840 max is 1.850 oal, if your chamber are tight, may need a Small base die, Can Also borescope the chamber, look for carbon/ copper ring at back of throat

 

[ranger3]

Ok, thanks for the advice. I think I have this partially figured out. First I sanded down a shellholder and kept turning down the die until the brass fit. After doing that I could consistently size brass to fit, albeit a bit shorter than new. I'm still baffled as to why I get a sharp shoulder on sized brass. It's not sharp to disallow chambering but looks compressed. All OD measurements of the brass are under SAAMI maximum. Additionally oal of sized brass is under 1.850. I have ordered a different brand of die to test for comparison. I'm suspecting my die is part of the problem.

Anyway I'm not clear on why this is happening.

Thanks again for all the good advice. It all added value.

 

[rwj]

... I'm still baffled as to why I get a sharp shoulder on sized brass. It's not sharp to disallow chambering but looks compressed.

Would you be so kind as to post pics of the sized shoulder? Obviously I can only speak from my experiences, but I’ve never created a sharp shoulder by sizing. If you have a borescope, it may be interesting to inspect that area of the die.