20 Vartarg, Wilson die issue

[michaeljp]

I have some Lapua 221 fireball brass, Redding FL die and a Wilson seater die. Im just experimenting with dummy rounds to see what the loaded case neck size will be. So i FL size the brass, no issue, but when i go to seat a 32gn SBK, 1. the neck is very tight and leaving a ring around the tip from the seater stem and 2. when i try to remove the round from the die, its stuck. I have to get a punch and punch the round out from the top. Im guessing the base of the case is slightly bigger than the die. I did colour it with a marker pen but it didnt show any marks.
Has anyone else had this problem? Im thinking of getting some very fine wet and dry paper and sanding the base of the die maybe 3/8" up.
From memory the loaded round was about .232" could that be the reason its getting stuck in the die?
The chamber i think, i dont have the rifle in my hands yet, still at the gumsmiths, is a no turn .231" Neck turning is no issue, i have the tools for that.
Just after some opinions on what ive done so far.

Cheers

 

[Phil]

Is it possible that the neck it too thick???

Did you measure the diameter of the inside of the neck before seating the bullet, does it need to be expanded???

I`m thinking that the necks are thicker, giving you trouble seating the bullet, then when the bullet is seated it gets stuck in the die.....

Phil.

 

['Freak]

If the loaded neck OD was .232” then that hollers a .014” neck wall. You’ll need a .0125” neck wall to end up with .002” total clearance in a chamber with a .231” neck, and could be make the Wilson seater happy too.

 

[dedogs]

I would check with your gunsmith on the chamber's neck diameter before I started turning necks to what "I think" the diameter is. dedogs

 

[SmokinJoe]

Sounds like the loaded neck dia is too large. Most 20VT chambers have a .232 dia, some a little larger, some a little smaller. In my experience, Lapua needed to be turned to get the clearance I wanted, which is about .002/.003. Also, Lapua is around .001/.002 bigger at the base, so your die may need to be polished out a little at the bottom. I would start with 220 grit, then finish with 400 or 600 grit. Hope this helps a little.

 

[XBBR Shooter]

I have some Lapua 221 fireball brass, Redding FL die and a Wilson seater die. I'm just experimenting with dummy rounds to see what the loaded case neck size will be. So i FL size the brass, no issue, but when i go to seat a 32gn SBK,

1. the neck is very tight and leaving a ring around the tip from the seater stem and...

The seater cup needs to be polished - use some #1000 or # 2000 silicone carbide paper and a bullet, and polish it out.

2. when i try to remove the round from the die, its stuck. I have to get a punch and punch the round out from the top. Im guessing the base of the case is slightly bigger than the die.

Try running the case up into the seater withOUT a bullet - if the base it too large, it will still stick, if it doesn't stick, the base is fine.

Some times, a seating stem cup that marks bullets can also stick - you might have this problem.

But, no matter what, do anneal the necks - they should not be that hard.

I did colour it with a marker pen but it didnt show any marks.

Mark the neck, and try seating a bullet, and look at the neck for marks.

Has anyone else had this problem? I'm thinking of getting some very fine wet and dry paper and sanding the base of the die maybe 3/8" up.

Don't do that (or anything), until you have isolated the problem...

From memory the loaded round was about .232" could that be the reason its getting stuck in the die?
The chamber I think, I don't have the rifle in my hands yet, still at the gunsmiths, is a no turn .231" Neck turning is no issue, i have the tools for that.
Just after some opinions on what I've done so far.

Cheers

 

[JohnHenry]

With my lot of Lapua FB brass, a 20VT chamber with a .231 neck diameter is not a "no turn chamber". My lot of Lapua brass with no neck turning yields a loaded 20VT neck diameter of .2318 with a seated 32 gr Sierra Blitzking. When you receive your rifle and confirm with some fired cases if your seater die needs to be opened, Wilson will do it for only a shipping charge if you choose.

Turn your necks to a .012 neck wall thickness and see if that solves your problem. The expander you use prior to neck turning should also reduce your neck tension by approx .001.

 

[michaeljp65]

Thanks for all your comments,


There seams to be a few possibilities as to what my problem could be. I'll start with marking the neck with a marker pen or ciggy lighter and see where its getting stuck and then ill go from there.

If i find the problem ill post it here.

Cheers.

 

[bouddha]

Also, remove the stuck case from the bottom, not the top. Small flat blade screwdriver between case rim and die, gently ease the case out. Mess up the bottom, it's ugly...mess up the top and it's $65 for a new seater.

 

[michaeljp65]

ok, i found out its the neck getting stuck. The neck walls are 0.014ish just like "freak" said in his reply, so i got 3 cases, fl sized them in the 20VT die. Expanded them in the 20 cal expander. I turned 1 down to .0129ish seated a bullet, perfect. No mark on bullet from seater stem and i the loaded round just slid out of the die. So with another expand case i seated it without turning and it got stuck.That was just to check that it was neck thickness and not something else. Now the loaded round measures .229" with the 3rd case i turned it also to .0129 and a good result.

Now ill just wait till i get the gun back before i do anything else to the brass.

Once again thanks for your help gents.

Cheers

 

[michaeljp65]

Also, remove the stuck case from the bottom, not the top. Small flat blade screwdriver between case rim and die, gently ease the case out. Mess up the bottom, it's ugly...mess up the top and it's $65 for a new seater.

To remove the case i just got a punch through the top with a light tap and out it came.
I wish it was only $65 bouddha, us poor suckers in Australia pay a premium for our shooting related goods. $85AUD for the seater plus postage so just a guess a bit over $100 aussie pesos delivered form Sinclairs.
No one in Australia had a 20 VT wilson die or Redding die. A couple of places never even heard of a 20 VT.

 

[ASbobcat]

ok, i found out its the neck getting stuck. The neck walls are 0.014ish just like "freak" said in his reply, so i got 3 cases, fl sized them in the 20VT die. Expanded them in the 20 cal expander. I turned 1 down to .0129ish seated a bullet, perfect. No mark on bullet from seater stem and i the loaded round just slid out of the die. So with another expand case i seated it without turning and it got stuck.That was just to check that it was neck thickness and not something else. Now the loaded round measures .229" with the 3rd case i turned it also to .0129 and a good result.

Now ill just wait till i get the gun back before i do anything else to the brass.

Once again thanks for your help gents.

Cheers

I have never owned a Wilson seater, but have had no similar issue with a Redding seater. I have an early .231 NK chamber designed for Remington brass before the Lapua came out. Even with a newer .232 NK you are lucky you found the problem while seating. If you had started shooting without investigating it might have ended disastrously.
Lapua 221 brass MUST be neck turned when converting to Vartarg unless you have a .233 or greater neck chamber, which would be very uncommon.