20 VarTarg vs 20 Practical

[DiRTY DOG]

I'm not aware of issues with 20VT brass formed from 223 brass. It's very common, have not read of problems. I'm one of the ones who has formed a few thousand of them and offer them here. They're actually very precisely made, with turned necks, etc.

I recall reading about neck turning chopped 556 brass, and donut formation. Is that a concern?

How many firings would you expect from LC18 or similar running reasonable loads?

 

[TheCZKid]

Is neck turning "required" when using 223 brass to make VT brass??

It is required if you make it from 223 / 5.56, because the body of the case becomes the new neck area, and it's too thick to use, so needs to be made thinner.

 

[Gabe22BR]

I recall reading about neck turning chopped 556 brass, and donut formation. Is that a concern?

No on donut- you’ll cut into the shoulder tiny bit..
unless you get a no turn.

How many firings would you expect from LC18 or similar running reasonable loads?

A barrel lifetime- reasonable loads-
Depending on how your primer pockets are to start with..

 

[TheCZKid]

I use Lake City because it's well made, consistent as it's mil-spec, inexpensive, and rated as 5.56 pressure. And once shot you should have many firings, and mostly just neck size for reloading, periodically bump the shoulder a couple thousandths.

 

[L.Sherm]

The only time you would even get close to any donut would be if you had a zero freebore reamer and ran 40 grain bullets or bigger.

 

[SD guy]

Seems like a quit a few powder options. I am leaning towards H4198, Reloader 7, A2200 & N120. Surprised to see 1680 may be a fine option as well. Then CFE BLK is a consideration as well with many others that may do rather well also.

Have everything needed now except the barrel. Expecting 4 months I suppose.

 

[Gabe22BR]

Seems like a quit a few powder options. I am leaning towards H4198, Reloader 7, A2200 & N120. Surprised to see 1680 may be a fine option as well. Then CFE BLK is a consideration as well with many others that may do rather well also.

Have everything needed now except the barrel. Expecting 4 months I suppose.

Bruno’s
Bugholes
Here in classifieds

Are options for RIGHT NOW..get it.. your smith in other hand is gonna hold ya up…

Powder- RL7, 10X,TAC,CFEblk, aa2200… gonna be all ya find.. IMR 4198.. might be around…

 

[Esoteric Junkie]

SD guy, I'd also consider the 20-222. It kind of splits the difference between the 20VT and 20Prac. with regard to performance. Like the 20Prac it's a straight neck down and your done with brass prep. Dies are easy to get and less expensive.

Since you mentioned you're using a CZ 527 action feeding and extraction for both is a moot point but if you were using a SA Rem 700 unless you're using an action that came as something off the FB case they tend to not kick those little FB cases out very well.

As for twist rate 10 or 11 will serve you well and I'd probably go with whichever one I could get first.

Thumbs up for the 20-222. Attached is some pressure data we did in 2015.

EJ

 

[SD guy]

Thumbs up for the 20-222. Attached is some pressure data we did in 2015.

EJ

Would love to see some similar data on the 20 Vartarg w powders like H4198, CFE BLK, A2200, & N120.
Bullet weights from 24 grains on up to the 45 gr Hndy. SP are what I would like to see.

Someone commented that the 45 gr bullet may be too long to properly stabilize in a 11 twist. Had to initially disagree here. Looking deeper with Berger twist rate calculator they may have some merit,

Apparently sales were not there though I am sorry to see the Hndy 45 gr SP dropped

Per JMB https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml#Hornady

I believe bullet length is largely what matters & here is a sample that are of interest to me.

Hammer 31gr Hunter = .560 Recommended min twist rate is 1-12″
Hammer 39gr Hunter = .7" Recommended minimum twist rate is 9.5″ which contradicts my length matters suggestion. Anyone have a explanation on this one?


Hornady 32 gr V-max = .638"SG = 1.33Bullet BC (G1): 0.210Adjusted BC for 1 in 11" Twist:0.199Your BC is being compromised by: 5%Minimum Twist Recommended: 1 in 10.3"


Hornady 40 gr V-max = .752"SG = 0.998Bullet BC (G1): 0.275Adjusted BC for 1 in 11" Twist:0.234Your BC is being compromised by: 15%Minimum Twist Recommended: 1 in 8.75"


Hornady 45 gr SP = .683" SG = 1.46Bullet BC (G1): 0.245Adjusted BC for 1 in 11" Twist:0.242Your BC is being compromised by: 1%Minimum Twist Recommended: 1 in 10.8
Midway 34 gr HP = .550
Nosler 32 gr Ballistic Tip Spitzer = .640"
Nosler 40 gr Ballistic Tip Spitzer = .745
Sierra 32gr BlitzKing = .688"

Sierra 39gr BlitzKing = .737" This bullet was designed to be the perfect length and stabilize in the 204 Ruger’s original 1-12″ twist barrel.

SG = 1.03Bullet BC (G1): 0.287Adjusted BC for 1 in 11" Twist:0.247Your BC is being compromised by: 14%Minimum Twist Recommended: 1 in 9.00"

 

[Gabe22BR]

Better stick those Noslers on that list…

 

[SD guy]

I had considered The Nosler & Hammer offerings though I do not currently own either. I had skipped those offerings. If adding one I'll add both.

 

[SD guy]

Started working with the Berger twist rate calculator & Looks like a 9 twist may be advisable with my heavier bullet considerations?

 

[L.Sherm]

Started working with the Berger twist rate calculator & Looks like a 9 twist may be advisable with my heavier bullet considerations?

You gonna shoot 55's.
For 39 grain bullets i would shoot the TNT or 39BK. You won't be disappointed.
Never shot the hammers but I can't see a solid copper giving you anymore accuracy and certainly not splat factor.
Don't get to caught up in numbers.

 

[Gabe22BR]

Good calculator. I use often to just to see…

 

[DiRTY DOG]

Would love to see some similar data on the 20 Vartarg w powders like H4198, CFE BLK, A2200, & N120.
Bullet weights from 24 grains on up to the 45 gr Hndy. SP are what I would like to see.

Someone commented that the 45 gr bullet may be too long to properly stabilize in a 11 twist. Had to initially disagree here. Looking deeper with Berger twist rate calculator they may have some merit,

Apparently sales were not there though I am sorry to see the Hndy 45 gr SP dropped

Per JMB https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml#Hornady

I believe bullet length is largely what matters & here is a sample that are of interest to me.

Hammer 31gr Hunter = .560 Recommended min twist rate is 1-12″
Hammer 39gr Hunter = .7" Recommended minimum twist rate is 9.5″ which contradicts my length matters suggestion. Anyone have a explanation on this one?


Hornady 32 gr V-max = .638"SG = 1.33Bullet BC (G1): 0.210Adjusted BC for 1 in 11" Twist:0.199Your BC is being compromised by: 5%Minimum Twist Recommended: 1 in 10.3"


Hornady 40 gr V-max = .752"SG = 0.998Bullet BC (G1): 0.275Adjusted BC for 1 in 11" Twist:0.234Your BC is being compromised by: 15%Minimum Twist Recommended: 1 in 8.75"


Hornady 45 gr SP = .683" SG = 1.46Bullet BC (G1): 0.245Adjusted BC for 1 in 11" Twist:0.242Your BC is being compromised by: 1%Minimum Twist Recommended: 1 in 10.8
Midway 34 gr HP = .550
Nosler 32 gr Ballistic Tip Spitzer = .640"
Nosler 40 gr Ballistic Tip Spitzer = .745
Sierra 32gr BlitzKing = .688"

Sierra 39gr BlitzKing = .737" This bullet was designed to be the perfect length and stabilize in the 204 Ruger’s original 1-12″ twist barrel.

SG = 1.03Bullet BC (G1): 0.287Adjusted BC for 1 in 11" Twist:0.247Your BC is being compromised by: 14%Minimum Twist Recommended: 1 in 9.00"

It seems 1:10" is minimaly equal and often superior to 1:11" in nearly all common bullets and weights?

 

[TheCZKid]

It seems 1:10" is minimally equal and often superior to 1:11" in nearly all common bullets and weights?

I have a 20 Vartarg and 20 Practical, both in 1:10 twist, and with 32 grain in the 20VT, and 40 grain in the 20P, that twist rate works really well.

 

[L.Sherm]

It seems 1:10" is minimaly equal and often superior to 1:11" in nearly all common bullets and weights?

Why is it superior? I can tell you for an absolute fact is a 10 will shoot no better than an 11 in 32-40 grain bullets. Ive shot them all. Just like Bergers calculator says a 8 twist is superior to a 9 which is also false. Ask the guys who shot 55 Bergers in 20 cals in competition what twist they shoot. But hey buy what you feel you need too

 

[bobtails]

I’ve never had a 20 practical. I have had a 20 VT in Cooper model 38. Not sure of the twist but it loved 32’s and 40’s. I am currently building another on with a 11 twist. I have 2-204’s also but my favorite 20 caliber is the 20 VT for sure. Also most efficient.

 

[Gabe22BR]

My 1-11 shoots 32& 40’s very well @ 350’ sea level…

 

[SD guy]

My 1-11 shoots 32& 40’s very well @ 350’ sea level…

To what distances have you put the 40's to the test?